Any money in balanced beers?

[gr8shandini]

Well, I've gotten to the point that almost every homebrewer has probably gone through where I'm delusional enough to think about ultimately making this a profession. However, I think that I have a problem in that I only really enjoy well-balanced, mostly true-to-style beers. To be completely honest, I find most craft brews these days tend to be either a one-dimensional 300 IBU hop-bomb, or a sickly sweet, 10% ABV "imperial" whatever-the-hell.

Unfortunately, I get the feeling that I'm mostly alone here based on the limited support for the "enough with the hops already" thread and many other recent comments comparing perfectly drinkable beers like Guinness and Sam Adams to BMC "pisswater." So I figure I'll throw my concept out there and let you guys comment on whether I stand even the average snowball's chance of actually making it work. If I were able to open a brewery tomorrow, the lineup would look a little something like this:

Permanent features:
Very traditional English best bitter
An ever so slightly over-hopped Irish red ale
Rye APA
Classic Pilsner

Seasonals:
Dry stout and/or porter
Wit or Hefe
Marzen/Oktoberfest
Schwarzbier (I don't know if anyone would buy it, but I love the hell out of them)
A specialty beer to subtly showcase just ONE non-standard ingredient (e.g. a Pecan smoked nut brown)

So what do you guys think? Is it possible to stand out by not trying to stand out? Or is 500 IBUs and/or 23% ABV simply what it takes to get noticed these days?

 

[o4_srt]

If you were to open up in my town, I'd be a longtime patron.

I'm not really into extreme beers either. That's not to say I don't like innovation, or unique ingredients, but the overall beer has to be balanced. If it's a lavender wit, let me taste the wit, with a hint of lavender on the back end.

Beer should taste like beer. Not like bitter apple spray, or chocolate syrup.

Brew good beer, true to style, with a few specialties, and I'm sure you would do just fine. IMO, the more extreme the beer is, the bigger the gap between the love/hate crowds becomes.

 

[EarlyBirdBrew]

Check these guys out: http://www.circlebrewing.com/

They just started up this year here in Austin and have been well received. They follow the German Purity Law or Reinheitsgebot, meaning they only use Water, Malt, Hops, and yeast. They have a straight forward lineup and so far have made solid beers. I like the extreme but sometimes I just want that classic amber/stout/pale ale.

I think if your beer is good people will buy/drink it.

 

[MalFet]

I hate to be the negative voice here, but...

It sounds great, but how are you going to compete with the semi-micros who already have a full lineup of balanced, to-style beers. I'm thinking in particular of Sierra Nevada here, but also places like Brooklyn Brewery, Sam Adams, etc.

It's easier to cut turf with the "extreme" beers, just because you can offer something that other people don't already offer for less money than you'll be able to.

 

[o4_srt]

I hate to be the negative voice here, but...

It sounds great, but how are you going to compete with the semi-micros who already have a full lineup of balanced, to-style beers. I'm thinking in particular of Sierra Nevada here, but also places like Brooklyn Brewery, Sam Adams, etc.

It's easier to cut turf with the "extreme" beers, just because you can offer something that other people don't already offer for less money than you'll be able to.

In my experience, most prefer to support the local guy, providing he has a good product.

 

[Walker]

In my experience, most prefer to support the local guy, providing he has a good product.

+1 there

i am not a fan of extreme beers and like things that fit well into established guidelines for the most part.

I support my local breweries as much as possible (but we have a LOT of them here right now), but I do prefer one particular local brewery over the others because they stick to style and make good beers.

I'd pick a 6-er of their beer for $12 over a 6-er of sierra nevada for $8.

 

[JohnTheBrewist]

I'm in the balanced brew camp. Even Sam Adams can be too hoppy for me, if Im not in the mood for it.

Where/how do you plan to market this brew? I would think the best way to test your market is to brew some up and give samples to your potential sellers (restaurants & bars?).

I buy a lot of craft brews at the local BevMo store. They stock a good variety of balanced craft beers and also seem to support local craft brewers.

 

[MalFet]

In my experience, most prefer to support the local guy, providing he has a good product.

I'd love to see him successful, and perhaps beer is a unique market in this sense. I own a medium sized coffee distributorship, and I see about a dozen new companies in my market every year. Eleven of them are out of business before they're 18 months old.

As much as people say they like to support the little guy, the little guy has a fierce, fierce uphill battle.

 

[pokerfreak2]

I'm with ya, I like balanced beers and am in the process of setting up a brewpub. I will however make an IPA for the hop heads.
Would you be willing to share your pecan nut brown recipe, it sounds delicious ?

 

[I_B_Mongo]

I'm also in the camp for balanced beers. I do, however, enjoy trying some of the more "extreme" offerings from time to time. I live in KC, so I'm lucky to have Boulevard beers available to me. I can drink their 6-packs for my daily beers, and have something from the Smokestack series when I want to have something with a little more "oomph".

 

[CDbrews]

I would support you... for me most of my beers dont break the 5% alc line and stay hopped to style... thats what I kook for in a good beer

 

[user 70770]

In my opinion, there's at least one style of beer that's really under represented either on the shelves or in brew pub: English bitters. If you think about it, an ordinary bitter could put traditional light beers to shame. I don't know about the rest of you, but here in Reno, the local pubs can't seem to do justice to this category of ales and the stuff on the shelves (like bass, samuel smith, boddington's and starting to see old speckled hen) is either expensive, stale or both. None of the popular breweries have anything like this in their lineup.

I think the key would be to try to get inspiration from European beers. British bitters, Czech pils, Munich dunkel lagers, Kolsch and Dry stouts are some good examples of balanced beers that have little representation here and would please crowds. The thing is your versions would be fresher and cheaper than the imported stuff.

 

[rexbanner]

I think you're far better off opening a brew pub than opening a brewery. I've been writing a business plan for a small brew pub for the small business management class that I am taking. The profit margin on a brew pub beer is actually extremely high. When it comes to a brew pub, or even a brewery for that matter, I really highly suggest that your flagship beer or year-round offers be American beers...here's why.

The average person will avoid an English pale ale or anything called a bitter. First, they won't know what it is. Second, it's not American. Third, it sounds really bitter, even though it's not. I really like EPAs and at first I wanted to do one as a year-round, but decided against it.

If you look at American beers, you have three really solid choices for year-round offers. APA, American wheat, and classic American pilsener. APA is just a good solid choice, a wheat is necessary for girls, and you must have a pilsener or light lager if you serve any spicy food. This is a little more relevant for a brew pub though. You could do a Czech pilsener too.

I do not think that extreme beers are that common. If I walk into a specialty beer store, I would say 80% of beers fall into the "normal" category. Whatever you choose, just remember that most people are very unfamiliar with European beer categories in America. On the other hand, if your beer tastes delicious, then who cares?

 

[windbreaker123]

Your not kitch enough for these days. I have found over the years I like beer styles that I never knew before. My Daughter brought me a stout last year. Never had one never wanted 1 . I never refuse free beer and thank goodness. It's 1 of the reasons I'm here. BUT you have your hop heads middle of the road. And if you want to be so crass to call some piss water. Piss water in your opinion. Sells can you reproduce it batch after batch. The problem is not the beer but how to expose the general public to a range of tastes.

 

[o4_srt]

Your not kitch enough for these days. I have found over the years I like beer styles that I never knew before. My Daughter brought me a stout last year. Never had one never wanted 1 . I never refuse free beer and thank goodness. It's 1 of the reasons I'm here. BUT you have your hop heads middle of the road. And if you want to be so crass to call some piss water. Piss water in your opinion. Sells can you reproduce it batch after batch. The problem is not the beer but how to expose the general public to a range of tastes.

Hows the homebrew?

 

[Mongrel]

I really don't care if you're to style or not as long as it tastes good. So far tonight I've had a delicious 4.9% Irish Stout on nitro, an over-hopped 6% red that I bought a growler of, and am currently on a 5.6% amber lager, and have a coconut brown chilling. If it's good, people will drink it...maybe not everyone, but I will

 

[Golddiggie]

Personally, I don't care for IBU bombs in my brews. I'd rather have something more balanced, or have the flavors more to style than the American versions of things (with IBU's coming out the wazoo)...

I think you're missing out on some more styles too... You should have a strong ale in there. A solid old ale would probably make people pause when they first try it. Make it with solid flavors, and character, and I think you'll gain a following for it. Make it a seasonal brew, or only available during a very small window. Age it for several months, or a year. When it sells out, people will need to wait until next year to have more... I also think a solid barley wine would be in order... If you have the space, set a couple barrels aside for longer aging of the old ale and barley wine batches (maybe offer an English and American version, see which sells better, if bot sell out within a good time frame, then keep offering both)...

I don't think it will be easy to carve out a market share, but I do think that if you make solid brews, that not a lot of local places are making/offering, then you'll get a good following. I do agree that a brew pub would/could be a solid way to get off the ground (or out of the basement)... If sales improve enough, long enough, you might find that you need to open up a dedicated brewery. IMO, it's better to start small and expand as you need, than think you'll do well, starting too large, and fail. Just make sure the brewery section of the brew pub has enough room, as does the storage/aging areas...

I would also think about offering either blonde or cream ales from around mid-spring through end of summer or early fall.

As far as the American dumb masses not understanding what an ESB really is... That's easily fixed... Just call it an English Pale Ale and don't worry about it.. You could also have an English IPA, since those show more restraint when it comes to IBU's when compared with the American versions...

Personally, I think the American versions of many brews have taken what was a great thing, and F'd it up by adding too much bittering hops. Just because the original versions didn't have a lot doesn't mean they're actually better with double the hop amounts, or IBUs... Maybe that's why most of what I'm brewing are styles from the British Isles...

 

[millsware]

I'm a fan of straightforward beers as long as they are well-crafted and flavorful. I actually prefer simple styles most of the time over 'extreme' beers. The tough part is to make a classic style that is good enough that people will choose yours over one that has a larger marketing budget, or better established reputation.

 

[ayoungrad]

In all honesty... I love hop bombs. 100 IBU is a great thing in my book. Having said that I also really like balanced beers. And I think I'm not alone in liking both balanced beers and unbalanced beers.

To put in my 2 cents about bitters... I love them. My lean is toward Special Bitters. And the last one I brewed has just under 1 vol CO2 in the bottle. IMHO it is very true to style. I asked a good friend of mine, who shares my love for beer and is too nice to be overly critical, what he thought about the carbonation level and his response was essentially "but that's what you were going for, right?".

If you brew an honestly true to style bitter you will have a lot of beer sitting in kegs. I think this would happen, not only because of the name as others have pointed out, but also because American's have been programmed to love carbonation.

 

[SilentAutumn]

Well, I don't get out much anymore - work, family, etc. So when I do get a night out, I want to try something new, something I've never heard of. But when we have a party or family get together, I usually get a few 12 packs of standard beers that everyone will enjoy and maybe a 6'er or two of experimental beers for people to try. Point being, when it comes to the masses, you can't fail with standards. (Don't confuse "standard" with BMC here.)

Homebrewing is a hobby and I can do whatever I feel like doing. I haven't brewed a beer yet that I haven't enjoyed since it was a labor of love. That said, people who have sampled some of the experiments haven't been fans.

 

[unionrdr]

My older son,after not having had any beer in several months,tried my previous batch of pale ale (avatar pic). He said it was "too strong"! I'm like WTF? "it's the lightest one I've made so far".?! So yeah,there's no accounting for taste. You can't please everyone,but you need to please as many as you can. BMC'rs can be a tough crowd to get through to.

 

[40watt]

Well, clearly, I would live in a pub with such offerings.

If you were to go that route, you could cash in on a smaller trend in America(certainly nowhere near me)...cask beers from a pump with the appropriate low carb content of English bitter and ales.

 

[Steelers77]

My dream is an English or German style brewery. Growing up I was lucky enough to have the Penn Brewery 10 min from my house. It is an authentic German style brewery, fantastic beer! It where I cut my teeth with good beers, even in high school we would slurge and get a case of Penn Pilsner.

I like the big beers but most of the time I'm just drinking a Mild, Weizen, Bitter, Dry Stout. Something that has a little more session to it.

 

[moti_mo]

This brewery is right down the road from my parents on the Outer Banks of NC:

http://www.weepingradish.com/

Very simple, very Reinheitsgebot, but they do really well. But they also have a great thing going in terms of sustainability. So there are other ways to differentiate yourself besides just flashy beers. Interact well with the local community, be sustainable, generally give back, and you will gain a following. Also see Hopworks Urban Brewery (HUB) in Portland. They have more "extreme" beers in their lineup I suppose, but they differentiate themselves with their mission.

 

[Steelers77]

Weeping Radish is nice, My buddy brings me beer back from there every year. He vacations at the Outer Banks.

 

[millsware]

My dream is an English or German style brewery. Growing up I was lucky enough to have the Penn Brewery 10 min from my house. It is an authentic German style brewery, fantastic beer! It where I cut my teeth with good beers, even in high school we would slurge and get a case of Penn Pilsner.

I like the big beers but most of the time I'm just drinking a Mild, Weizen, Bitter, Dry Stout. Something that has a little more session to it.

Penn pilsner is good, except it's not really a pilsner.

Back on topic... I think for a brewery or brewpub to do well it has to serve a niche and do it well and consistently. Balanced beers can work if they are all organic, or classic styles, or underserved as some have mentioned.

 

[Golddiggie]

I don't think a brew pub needs to market to a niche... I was at one just yesterday that has a variety of brews on tap (they only serve what they brew there). They cover a wide enough range to satisfy the vast majority of people that might go in there. Of course, they do offer more than just beer to drink, which probably does help.

 

[Thakog]

At the OP- I think it depends on your business model. If you opened as a brewpub, you wouldn't really be competing with with all of the macro-micros like Sam Adams.

 

[Teromous]

I think it's a simple as having good beer. Some people are going to be label chasers, but you'll always have customers that are looking for a nice tasty brew without anything crazy. It's like a burger...a lot of people enjoy the whole applewood smoked bacon aged cheddar cheese 100% angus steakhouse burgers...but given the lack of options they'll eat a regular pub burger if it tastes good.

You also have to figure that you're polling opinions from people online. People who care enough about their beer to go online and talk about it are bound to be a little crazy. Crazy people are more apt to enjoy crazy beers :cross:.

 

[Golddiggie]

I think that a brew pub, that serves quality brew, plus solid food, will do well just about anyplace. Well, except in areas where people don't drink that is... So Utah might not be a good location.

If you're looking to do it, and have the capital to make it happen, go for it. Just be prepared to not turn a profit for at least the first year or two. Do some solid market research to make sure the area will support having a brew pub and you should do fine. You might even do so well that in a few years you can open up an actual brewery... Just don't grow too large, too fast...

BTW, applewood smoked bacon on a quality beef burger is a thing of beauty... I think I know what I'm making for dinner before the weekend is out...