Roycebarrow
just getting by, one beer at a time!
How is chlorine reported on this water report? and sorry for the chicken scratch
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Ansbach Germany water analysis from Ward Labs / Question
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Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
Chlorine is not reported. Likely you would have needed to specify it and to have paid extra for it to be included.
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Roycebarrow
just getting by, one beer at a time!
I see....thanks
It's safe to assume that any public water source is disinfected with some sort of chlorine compound. Removing those disinfectants should always be the first job of the brewer.
You can get a fairly decent indication as to what your chlorine/chloramine situation is using instruments no more sophisticated than a tumbler and your nose. See https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/campden-tablets-sulfites-and-brewing-water.361073/. You can also obtain inexpensive test kits from aquarium supply houses and others (Hach, LaMotte...). If using a kit be sure it tests for 'total' chlorine (which includes chloramine). If it doesn't add a pinch of potassium iodide to the sample.
Generally speaking, Germany uses very little chlorine and most of it, and very often even all of it, is already gone when the water comes out of the tap. We keep our pipes and the water supply in very good shape, that's why this works in Germany but wouldn't, for example, in the UK. I wouldn't hesitate brewing with it as it is.
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Many regulatory bodies require that public water supplies carry a residual of disinfectant in the water lines to help guard against recontamination in the distribution network after leaving the water treatment plant. In my professional experience, the use of chlorine vs. chloramines is often guided by the raw water quality. If the water has much dissolved organic content, then its less likely that chlorine can be employed since the reaction between those components can lead to carcinogen formation. Chloramines reduce that effect.
Chlorine is a much better inactivating disinfectant than chloramines, but chloramines have higher stability and longer life which means that a disinfectant residual is easier to maintain with chloramines.
Chlorine is a much better inactivating disinfectant than chloramines, but chloramines have higher stability and longer life which means that a disinfectant residual is easier to maintain with chloramines.
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Roycebarrow
just getting by, one beer at a time!
@Miraculix First off dig the name haha, I have watched those cartoons quite a bit to help learn German better. I have the trinkwasseranalyse from the city which is posted on the stadtwerke site, I couldn't find any on it, so I sent off to ward labs to double check.
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Roycebarrow
just getting by, one beer at a time!
Yeah this is difficult to figure out because I want to assume there is chlorine as there is in the states, but im not seeing anything on any report here. But as you stated, it is always best to go with the safest route and do due diligence, which I believe has been done.
I think you might be the first one who got it
Don't compare the German water with the USA or UK. Our pipes are regularly maintained and therefore very little residual chlorine is necessary. Most of the times, it will disappear in the pipes before the water reaches you.
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
About 0.15 grams of potassium metabisulfite dissolved into 20 Liters of water should be sufficient to remove chlorine and/or chloramine.
It is a volatile component. Not all utilities report their chlorine or chloramines content since it varies by where you are in the distribution system. It does not mean that its not there!!!
To summarize:
To be pretty sure do the sniff tests at
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/campden-tablets-sulfites-and-brewing-water.361073/
To be more certain add a dab of DPD, a pinch of KI and a smidgeon of NaHSO4 - chlorine or chloramine will turn it magenta. Or buy a kit which contains those chemicals (total chlorine test kit).
To be absolutely certain, ask the water authority.
To be sure you are protected if uncertain add a Campden tablet to each 80L of water.
To be pretty sure do the sniff tests at
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/campden-tablets-sulfites-and-brewing-water.361073/
To be more certain add a dab of DPD, a pinch of KI and a smidgeon of NaHSO4 - chlorine or chloramine will turn it magenta. Or buy a kit which contains those chemicals (total chlorine test kit).
To be absolutely certain, ask the water authority.
To be sure you are protected if uncertain add a Campden tablet to each 80L of water.
Are you German? Your name is a German one and afaik you are quite the guy to talk to regarding water chemistry or do I confuse you with somebody else?
The reason I am asking, is that I studied wastewater and freshwater treatment and pipe network design and maintenance (civil engineering) in Germany and that also covered fresh water systems.
I am working in the UK now though, and also not on the fresh water side but on the drainage and foul water side. However, what I wrote above regarding the amount of chlorine left in the water when it reaches the tap is (of course with the obligatory few exceptions), to my knowledge the general way the local authorities try to deal with the treatment. Keeping it as low as possible.
The first time in my life I smelled chlorine in tap water was in the UK, but never in Germany, which of course does not mean that there cannot be traces left in the water, but it gives you quite a good idea about the general difference in level.
Let's point out that chlorine is volatile but chloramine much less so and that is exactly why it is used. I have no idea as to whether it is used in Germany (or England) but if the mains are so well maintained in Germany that only a small dose of chlorine is required at the utility it would seem unlikely that chloramination would be needed.
North America has the philosophy that a disinfectant should be detected at the point of use.
Germany has the philosophy no chemical at the point of use. That does not mean they wouldn't use it, but it should not be in the water you drink.
I say should, because they are allowed to have it in there! That normally happens it the system is breached and surface water enters it or they fear they got some other contamination (e.g. from dead leg etc.). Unless you are a major-major customer with good relations to the supply company, they need not notify anyone when they do.
Large breweries there don't care, because they have their own wells.
The good part is, you don't need to worry. If you don't drink chlorinated water day in and out, you can easily smell it (you might not have there, because there's nothing in it).
So, all you need to do is take a sniff before you use it.
I dealt with some municipal feed water there many years ago (not a brewery) and hypochlorite was the only stuff that the provider used. If you want to go super safe, give them a call and ask if they add that or chloramine into the distribution system in case they have to.
Germany has the philosophy no chemical at the point of use. That does not mean they wouldn't use it, but it should not be in the water you drink.
I say should, because they are allowed to have it in there! That normally happens it the system is breached and surface water enters it or they fear they got some other contamination (e.g. from dead leg etc.). Unless you are a major-major customer with good relations to the supply company, they need not notify anyone when they do.
Large breweries there don't care, because they have their own wells.
The good part is, you don't need to worry. If you don't drink chlorinated water day in and out, you can easily smell it (you might not have there, because there's nothing in it).
So, all you need to do is take a sniff before you use it.
I dealt with some municipal feed water there many years ago (not a brewery) and hypochlorite was the only stuff that the provider used. If you want to go super safe, give them a call and ask if they add that or chloramine into the distribution system in case they have to.
