Another smelly Cider thread....

[TeeJo]

Well, I started a batch of cider about a month back, using a smack pacck of Wyeast 108 English Ale yeast that had been in the fridge for about ever.

Tasted some from the primary last night. Tastes OK. Smells....not so much...

So, today's project is going to be to get it off the lees, of which there is a lot, and I was pondering whether it would be worth lighting a fire under it a bit by spiking it with a shot of fresh juice and some yeast nutrient to work out the smells rather than splash racking or maybe in addition to it...

How much nutrient to use? I was figuring to add it to say, a liter/quart or so of juice and adding it in after racking it off the abundant lees. It'll mean another cycle of waiting for the fermentation to end, and the cider to clarify, but....

Have no experience using the stuff. Had not added any to the cider, probably should have, but that's water under the bridge, innit?

Trying for a pretty dry cider, and not too concerned about waiting it out, but was looking for a little input from the more experienced folks.

Thanks!
TeeJo

 

[DaMonkey]

Trying for a pretty dry cider, and not too concerned about waiting it out, but was looking for a little input from the more experienced folks.

The smell goes away with age, since you plan to wait it out then age it a month.

 

[Ralelen]

When apples ferment it gets pretty smelly, no matter what yeast you use. As Damonkey said, give it time in primary and it will go away.

 

[cujocon]

My cider always smells like Rhino farts for at least a month...after 6-9 months though - top notch stuff. No stink residuals.

 

[TeeJo]

Y'all figure it's worth it to pull it off the lees or not?

This is cheap high test cider, not fine organic apples lovingly crushed by barefoot virgins.

Previous batches were quite drinkable right out of the carboy, and were even better after a month or so, but they sure didn't come up with smells like this!

Oh, it was Wyeast 1098. Dunno why I don't get a 'edit' button in every post when I post. Fat fingers!

TeeJo

 

[Ralelen]

Y'all figure it's worth it to pull it off the lees or not?

This is cheap high test cider, not fine organic apples lovingly crushed by barefoot virgins.

Previous batches were quite drinkable right out of the carboy, and were even better after a month or so, but they sure didn't come up with smells like this!

Oh, it was Wyeast 1098. Dunno why I don't get a 'edit' button in every post when I post. Fat fingers!

TeeJo

I say leave it. I leave mine on for at least a month.

 

[DaMonkey]

I say leave it. I leave mine on for at least a month.

Don't leave it too long in the primary though but a month is fine. I let mine sit in secondary the longest. But either way I usually bottle age mine and the smell goes away in the bottle.

 

[phug]

Cheap high test cider, you sure it doesn't need nutrients to stop being stinky?

 

[TeeJo]

Previous batches were good, but this is the first time through with the 1098 yeast.

I figure I will get it off the lees in the next day or so, Today is a write-off as far as getting anything useful done.

TeeJo

 

[-Fusion]

So you all leave your cider in the secondary with quite a lot of headspace? I have 5 gal in a 6gal carboy after I racked from primary.

 

[phug]

So you all leave your cider in the secondary with quite a lot of headspace? I have 5 gal in a 6gal carboy after I racked from primary.

nah we just bottle from primary

 

[Oberon67]

A dose of yeast nutrient will stop the stinkies.

 

[-Fusion]

nah we just bottle from primary

Here is what it looks like. http://m.imgur.com/cCShLm4

Been like this for 7 days

 

[phug]

looks like it's still active or has stalled. Lots of yeast still in suspension.

What was the og, what's the current gravity, what yeast did you use and what temps. Have you considered, cold crashing it?

 

[phug]

Also, what on earth are you watching? And what is that face he's making?

 

[DaMonkey]

So you all leave your cider in the secondary with quite a lot of headspace? I have 5 gal in a 6gal carboy after I racked from primary.

Absolutely not. You can if you rack onto sorbate and sulfites but I still leave as little head room as possible.

Oxygen is your enemy, when brewing.

 

[TeeJo]

Quoting Oberon67 "A dose of yeast nutrient will stop the stinkies."

Define "A dose".

And no, not the itchy burning kind.

It's crappy rainy day out and I figure that makes it a great time to put in a little time in the basement.

TeeJo

 

[-Fusion]

Great its had all that headspace for a week..... can I top it off with juice tonight?

 

[TeeJo]

Y'know, if it was still working (bubbling the airlock) all that space gets filled pretty well with CO2.

If you add juice, fermentation is gonna start back up again, and the cycle continues.

I figure there has been an awful lot of cider over the centuries, brewed in open vats an barrels that had little or nothing in the way of airtightness to them, that the little air that will be in a carboy is not so much worth worrying about.

TeeJo

 

[-Fusion]

Absolutely not. You can if you rack onto sorbate and sulfites but I still leave as little head room as possible.

Oxygen is your enemy, when brewing.

Can I fill it up now? It's been in secondary for a week.

 

[-Fusion]

Y'know, if it was still working (bubbling the airlock) all that space gets filled pretty well with CO2.

If you add juice, fermentation is gonna start back up again, and the cycle continues.

I figure there has been an awful lot of cider over the centuries, brewed in open vats an barrels that had little or nothing in the way of airtightness to them, that the little air that will be in a carboy is not so much worth worrying about.

TeeJo

I wouldn't mind if it starts up again. I don't want to lose this batch.

 

[TeeJo]

If I had that or less amount of headspace in my carboy, I'd have had glop spread from ceiling to walls from the fermentation.

As it was, I was wiping yeast sludge off the outside of the carboy often enough.

My opinion, RDWHAHB. Relax, don't worry, have a home brew!

TeeJo

 

[-Fusion]

If I had that or less amount of headspace in my carboy, I'd have had glop spread from ceiling to walls from the fermentation.

As it was, I was wiping yeast sludge off the outside of the carboy often enough.

My opinion, RDWHAHB. Relax, don't worry, have a home brew!

TeeJo

RDWHAHB? I'm a newb

 

[TeeJo]

What's it say right after the acronym?

Relax, don't worry, have a home brew!

Feel blind yet?

TeeJo

 

[-Fusion]

What's it say right after the acronym?

Relax, don't worry, have a home brew!

Feel blind yet?

TeeJo

:rockin: tossing this batch as is in the dark corner and will revisit it in a few months.

 

[TeeJo]

FWIW, I just pulled mine off the lees and added 2 liters of apple juice and 2 1/2 teaspoons of yeast nutrient. I am pretty sure it would have been fine with some time, but I wanted to sorta be sure. Pretty certain that the relight on the fermentation won't hurt anything anyway.

TeeJo

 

[DaMonkey]

Can I fill it up now? It's been in secondary for a week.

Yes.

It looks like its still pumping out CO2 though? If it is you should be OK. If its not then you might get some surface infections. I have seem them twice on my cider with head room around yours. If you get them you need to sulfite and sorbate to save them, then drink. Adding juice now and leaving it on the small amount of extra lees is perfectly fine and theoretically advantageous.

 

[TeeJo]

To follow up...

Two glasses in, straight from the carboy... It tastes amazing!

TeeJo

 

[jsiddall]

Good news!

For the record I wouldn't recommend adding nutrient near the end of the ferment. Any leftover nutrient will help spoilage organisms. Even without extra nutrient the yeast should still eat the sugar, even if slowly. Any stinkiness should dissipate over the next months in the carboy.

Also, I regularly top up with more juice. Gets rid of headspace and makes more cider. What's not to like?

 

[Yooper]

Previous batches were good, but this is the first time through with the 1098 yeast.

I figure I will get it off the lees in the next day or so, Today is a write-off as far as getting anything useful done.

TeeJo

To follow up...

Two glasses in, straight from the carboy... It tastes amazing!

TeeJo

Great to hear it tastes great! I'm not one to leave my ciders/wines on the lees long term, and I'm a big believer in topping up to prevent oxidation and infection. I leave my ciders in primary during very active fermentation (usually with a towel covering it), and then rack to a carboy and airlock when fermentation slows down.

here's what mine look like: (the one in the back had a sample removed, that is why it shows so much headspace compared to the others)

 

[MindenMan]

Yooper, if it wasn't for you all help my ciders would still suck. I do wish I had the space to age 30 gallons at a time... If we ever get near the UP, I hope my wife and I can tip one back with you and your hubby.

 

[TeeJo]

Yeah, just had the idea to try the stuff last night. What a pleasant surprise, after the taste and smell that was before.

There was a fairly active period of fermentation restarted after the juice was added, and it has been fairly quiet for the past two weeks, though there seemed to be a wee bit of bubbles present at the surface.

Dunno if I can credit the nutrient addition, the added juice, or simply the time that was added on after it came off the very ample lees. One thing I am certain of, though, is that I would have been cleaning up a lot of spilled goop, had I tried to ferment this yeast in a full carboy. It was more than a little wild, with peanut butter consistency deposits around the neck of the bottle, and a raft of goopy yeast on top.

Matters not, as the end result is pretty darn nice!

Trying to decide how I am going to put this up, whether to bottle carb it, or simply bottle it as is and see what it becomes over some time. Maybe some of each.


TeeJo

 

[MindenMan]

Teejo, I don't know how big your batch is, but I do recommend you lay down (age) as much as you can. I found out by accident what a few months can do (okay 8 months). I made some applejack and forgot about it. 8 months later when I found it in the bottom of the closet, my wife and I sampled it and I could not believe I was the one that made it. Honestly, I had never tasted anything that nice that wasn't $100.00 or more a bottle. Needless to say, I have 6 gallons of different ciders fermenting right now that are destined to be "jacked", too bad they won't be ready to drink anytime soon.

 

[TeeJo]

It's a 23 liter carboy. Gonna be my summer supply, while I wait for the apples to ripen.

Dunno yet if I will throw together another batch in the meantime, or if I will do a batch of mead up.

Lesse, going to have the cherries come on line, as well as (maybe) a decent crop of yellow plums too... I need a bigger basement!

TeeJo