Another New Kegger question

[jdauria]

Just kegged my first beer this past weekend and had a question about line balancing vs carbonating. When using the set it and wait carbonation method do you carbonate based on what PSI you need per line balancing calculations or do you carbonate based on charts/BeerSmith...then change PSI to balancing level when serving?

Have a California Common at 40F. 5 foot beer line plus picnic tap, with 2 foot rise from center of keg to tap. Using one online calculator it came out to 15.5 PSI. Beersmith for a 2.8 carb level and for 4.5 gallons (that's another story!) suggests 13.26 PSI.

The other issue is I see a lot of videos online about turning the CO2 down to serving pressure when it is ready. Am I right that based on my system the serving pressure is the balancing pressure of 15.5?

 

[BigFloyd]

With 5ft lines that seems pretty high. 10-12psi is a good place to try and see how it's going to work.

 

[JDGator]

With 5ft lines that seems pretty high. 10-12psi is a good place to try and see how it's going to work.[/QUOTE

This is what i would set it at.

but first crank it up to 30 or so to seat the lid properly. then bleed it off a few times and lower the pressure to 10-12.

 

[jdauria]

Thanks guys. Poured first beer off it before reading and got ton of foam, 2-3 glasses of it. So released the pressure, reset lid and dialed back to 10. Still a little foam but not as bad. Will let in ride to my Labor Day cookout and should be good!

 

[JuanMoore]

Just kegged my first beer this past weekend and had a question about line balancing vs carbonating. When using the set it and wait carbonation method do you carbonate based on what PSI you need per line balancing calculations or do you carbonate based on charts/BeerSmith...then change PSI to balancing level when serving?

Have a California Common at 40F. 5 foot beer line plus picnic tap, with 2 foot rise from center of keg to tap. Using one online calculator it came out to 15.5 PSI. Beersmith for a 2.8 carb level and for 4.5 gallons (that's another story!) suggests 13.26 PSI.

The other issue is I see a lot of videos online about turning the CO2 down to serving pressure when it is ready. Am I right that based on my system the serving pressure is the balancing pressure of 15.5?

What you need to do is calculate the serving pressure/carbonation pressure (which should be the same thing) using the desired carbonation level and beer storage temperature. For 2.8 vol at 40° that would be ~16 psi. You then need to balance the line length based on that pressure and temperature.

The line balancing equations/calculators you're using are designed for use in commercial systems, and won't work for your situation. The only thing they do is calculate the line length needed for a flow rate of ~128 oz/min, which is the fastest a beer can be poured at 38° and 2.7 vol without excessive foaming. For higher carb levels or warmer temps, the flow needs to be slower and gentler to prevent the CO2 from coming out of solution and causing a foamy mess. There's only one line length calculator out there that doesn't make these terrible assumptions, and it can be found here-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApGb-vIKLq7FdGtzN3BrY2xZSldORzQ2bHVVX0hzaEE#gid=0

You'll need to put in the SG of the beer, CO2 pressure, height from center of keg to faucet, beer line inside diameter, and desired pint fill speed. For 2.8 vol and 40° I'd use a pretty slow pint fill speed, at least 10.5 seconds. That will put you around 14' of standard 3/16" ID beer line.

The other option is to keep the beer under 38° and 2.7 vol, and use the 5' line you have.

 

[boortzie]

I too used the online balancing calculators, and tended to get a ton of foam. Two things I did that helped me:

1. I put a fan in my keezer (not sure if you have this or not, but it helped tremendously).

2. I extended the length to 7 ft. I actually started with 10 ft., but the resistance was too great. Then by trial and error I removed 6 in. at a time until I got to about 7 ft., and that seems to work well for me.

BTW, I keep my keezer at 41 degrees.

 

[jdauria]

Just a correction, the online calculator suggested PSI that I had set the keg at was 13.5 not 15.5 as I originally said. Checked my notes when I got home!

I am using a standing freezer set at 40 with a Johnson controller. I actually started with 6 feet of line but though it would be too much so cut it down to 5. Maybe if I still have foam issues I will get some more line.

Once past the foam, have to say the beer was pretty good. I attempted to make Widmer Brothers Columbia Common, a California common, that my local pub had on tap and I loved. Of course, I could not find Columbia hops or get their Alchemy hops...so while I used the same malts as theirs and one of their hops, I had to use Northern Brewer hops instead, so it's more of a generic Cali Common...but taste is pretty close!

 

[zachattack]

I agree with Juan. Your personal preferences (and the beer style) should determine how carbonated it is, and you should build the system around that. Not the other way around. A longer line is what you need.

 

[brandonhagen1]

i agree with juan. Your personal preferences (and the beer style) should determine how carbonated it is, and you should build the system around that. Not the other way around. A longer line is what you need.

+1