Another LHBS Closing. Third one this year in the Puget sound

[DEDOBURRITO]

I'm not one to Post New threads, or become involved in a thread but I do get most of my insight and Knowledge from Home brew talk.

Anyway This topic of Losing another LHBS Has me worried about this Hobby that I enjoy so much. I do very little online shopping and most of that is for equipment like fittings and valves, stuff that cant really be found at the LHBS. Other wise I would by it from the closest one to me because there prices are very competitive.

My journey into Home brewing started like other hobbies that I'm into, by not having much knowledge and experimenting, learning from others. Most of us Home brewers really enjoy the experimenting part. A lot of times the experiment doesn't turn out the way we expect, or even like. and other times it creates something we've never experienced before!

I tell you that when I walk into the Grain room at the LHBS, its like a Kid walking into a candy shop. Seeing all the different bins of malts and the flavors that they can produce can be over overwhelming to the perceptive thoughts of what can be created. Like most I walk into that room with a recipe in hand. When I walk out, most of the time I have something completely different. What I create with this may not make the best beer, match any type of style, BUT it is my own.

So for me losing another LHBS is a tragedy. Not having this option may make me quit this hobby.

Why are we losing so many LHBS? I think every one knows the answer to that. Big Beer! And now you can buy someone else's creativity and make it your own with the acquisitions of some smaller craft breweries.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Why are we losing so many LHBS? I think every one knows the answer to that. Big Beer! And now you can buy someone else's creativity and make it your own with the acquisitions of some smaller craft breweries.

Not to canonize big beer, but the small business world is harsh and fierce with tight margins, so there are dozens if not hundreds of reasons a small business fails that have nothing to do with outside forces. As an attorney working in bankruptcy, I have personally shut the coffin on hundreds of small businesses, and to be honest most of them were doomed from the start. There's a much better chance the owner is getting divorced or didn't pay payroll taxes or just wasn't making money because the location was too expensive for the customer volume, or failed to advertise and bring in the revenue.

And I do not see the casual connection between BMC buying XYZ Brewery that would cause me to stop shopping at my LHBS. To a casual extract brewer, maybe - but I just don't see the connection. I don't change my own oil or build my own furniture because or grow my own veggies because it's cost- or time- effective - I do it because I enjoy it.

If a LHBS closing pushes you out of the hobby, find another shop or order online. Quitting the hobby because your LHBS closes because of a BMC acquisition (a dubious proposition) would be letting BMC win.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

There is a regional brewing supply chain in my area which has quite a few locations between Illinois and Wisconsin. Even as a stable company with diverse products to sell and veeeeery competitive prices, they have had to close one of their stores (one that I know of, maybe more). Another smaller shop near me had to close up their second location as well.

It's a tough industry, margins are going to be thin, and there is a lot of overhead for products that don't move quickly. Adding to that, I get the impression many of the LHBS owners are guys without retail experience who think it would be fun to be in some aspect of the hobby, so they open a store.

I go to one store where the owner is not a business guy, but he has a store. Every time I go, they don't have simple stuff (Coriander - what LHBS doesn't carry Coriander!?!?), they charge me incorrectly, or they don't have enough inventory. This is a good example of a place which in a normal competitive market wouldn't be in existence, but my guess is the margins are so thin that no one else wants to try to get into the market - especially after seeing a few others close.

I still don't order things online, but each time I go to these local stores and they screw something up, I ask myself why I'm donating my money to them.

 

[mongoose33]

Not to canonize big beer, but the small business world is harsh and fierce with tight margins, so there are dozens if not hundreds of reasons a small business fails that have nothing to do with outside forces. As an attorney working in bankruptcy, I have personally shut the coffin on hundreds of small businesses, and to be honest most of them were doomed from the start. There's a much better chance the owner is getting divorced or didn't pay payroll taxes or just wasn't making money because the location was too expensive for the customer volume, or failed to advertise and bring in the revenue.

And I do not see the casual connection between BMC buying XYZ Brewery that would cause me to stop shopping at my LHBS. To a casual extract brewer, maybe - but I just don't see the connection. I don't change my own oil or build my own furniture because or grow my own veggies because it's cost- or time- effective - I do it because I enjoy it.

If a LHBS closing pushes you out of the hobby, find another shop or order online. Quitting the hobby because your LHBS closes because of a BMC acquisition (a dubious proposition) would be letting BMC win.

I think what DEDOBURRITO is suggesting is that the proliferation of craft breweries, with presumably increased selection of craft beer, reduces the desire for current and potentially new brewers to continue/take up the hobby.

Personally I started in homebrewing because a nearby craft brewery changed the recipe of my favorite beer of all time. They had a hit on their hands and they decided to change the recipe! Sounds like one of those bad decisions a LHBS might potentially make.

So I started brewing. Had they not changed the recipe I would likely not have started down this path. Access to tasty and fairly-priced craft brew is likely directly related to how much people want to start or continue home brewing.

That said, changing the ownership of a craft brewery from a creative local brewer to one of the BMC behemoths doesn't seem likely to change the access to beer. It just changes the owners. If they use the distribution system to shut out others, that'd be different, but it sure seems like there's a lot of choice out there regardless.

**************

BTW, on a tangential note, it seems to me the homebrew industry (if you can call it that) should be doing more to attract new brewers using newer methods like BIAB. While I like the traditional mash-tun methods of brewing too, BIAB is simpler in terms of equipment, can be faster, and to my palate, produces beer that tastes the same.

I suspect there are some/many? homebrewers who want this enterprise to appear mysterious and magical, as if they've mastered some medieval process not accessible to the normal human being. That is counter to drawing more people into the homebrewing circle.

*************

And THAT said, HBT is really quite the opposite of that. Help abounds, feedback is a click away, it really is a helpful community.

I helped a friend get into brewing, so he's another customer of the LHBS. And yet, there are locals who are not particularly supportive of new brewers. I am a member of a homebrew club, but it's not in my hometown, it's 22 miles away. There *is* a local homebrew club but it's CLOSED! They only take a limited number of members, and if one leaves the only way you can get in is for someone to SPONSOR YOU.

Unbelievable. As soon as "CLOSED" was mentioned, I lost interest. The leader of that group, if you want to call him that, has 23 years of experience. I don't know if he's maintaining a cult of admirers, simply doesn't like people, can't fit more than 10 people in a house at a time, or what.

And that guy wasn't very helpful to me when I started brewing. I wanted a basic water formula for our own municipal supply here, and he was pretty vague about it all. Can't tell if he just doesn't understand water that well or if he just didn't want to tell me.

There seems to be a ethic amongst some brewers that if they learned it the hard way, any newbie should have to learn it that way, too. To the extent this attitude is at all widespread, it damages homebrewing as a phenomenon. '

I wanted to know what a specific water formulation was so I could reverse engineer it, after a fashion, trying to learn why it was correct. I didn't have much confidence I could build water from the ground up and get it right, and given I was investing money, time, and lots of patience in the result, I didn't want to experiment on that until I knew what I was doing.

Maybe that was ultimately helpful to me, I don't know. But I do know that I'm unlike a lot of people new to a hobby in that once I get a little interested in something, I tend to get REALLY interested in it. I refused to be defeated by his unwillingness to be helpful, and in the end, he really had no obligation to help me. I get that, but at the same time how much of that kind of attitude turns off new brewers?

This has become longer than I intended, but it's allow me to get out some of my thoughts on this.

 

[Pappers_]

. . . Why are we losing so many LHBS? I think every one knows the answer to that. Big Beer! . . .

I share your general concern about the number of supply stores closing - but its not just bricks-and-mortar stores, online stores have closed, too. We have a semi-local chain, Brew & Grow, that had a number of stores in Illinois and Wisconsin, and they have had to contract - they were my LHBS but no longer. Honestly, the closest bricks-and-mortar stores to me (in the city center of Chicago) are so far away I don't consider them local.

Big Beer probably doesn't have a lot to do with it, though. Sure, the AB-Inbev purchase of NB/Midwest has some impact, but they were already one of the biggest online retailers, I would imagine. I think it has more to do with the cyclical nature of hobbies like ours and that we may perhaps be on a downward curve in terms of numbers.

 

[Pappers_]

There is a regional brewing supply chain in my area which has quite a few locations between Illinois and Wisconsin. Even as a stable company with diverse products to sell and veeeeery competitive prices, they have had to close one of their stores (one that I know of, maybe more). Another smaller shop near me had to close up their second location as well.

I hear you, HTB. When B&G closed the west loop store, I basically lost my local store. I have to drive across the city, either north or south, to get to another store, a minimum of an hour round-trip from home. I've begun ordering more online.

 

[Pappers_]

I think what DEDOBURRITO is suggesting is that the proliferation of craft breweries, with presumably increased selection of craft beer, reduces the desire for current and potentially new brewers to continue/take up the hobby.

That makes some sense - fewer people are either taking up or continuing to brew, or are brewing less, in favor of buying commercially produced beers.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I hear you, HTB. When B&G closed the west loop store, I basically lost my local store. I have to drive across the city, either north or south, to get to another store, a minimum of an hour round-trip from home. I've begun ordering more online.

Yeah, that was my B&G as well. Near my office, great location. But it was always pretty dead when I was in there.

What stinks is, a few years ago if you were mid-brew and had an issue, there were a couple places around that you could swing by to grab something. Now days it's a long drive for me, or they aren't open until the afternoon.

BUT, I shouldn't complain too much, because there are many people who live much further away from brew stores. A friend of mine has to go to their local grocery store to get his brew supplies. And let me say, when you buy "Bottles" from this local grocery store, expect them to be bottles which were returned on deposit, un-rinsed and with a cigarette butt or two in the bottle. Sooo...there's that.

 

[Pappers_]

Yeah, that was my B&G as well. Near my office, great location. But it was always pretty dead when I was in there.

What stinks is, a few years ago if you were mid-brew and had an issue, there were a couple places around that you could swing by to grab something. Now days it's a long drive for me, or they aren't open until the afternoon.
. . .

Do you go to Brew Camp now? I've had the same experiences that you describe. The one south, BevArt is a pretty good store, small, but they've got everything and good folks who own/work there, too. But its on Western around 101st Street, so its not close to local for me in Pilsen.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Yeah, brew camp. I'm way up on the north side of the city, so it's the best thing I've got. Never tried Bev Art, but I have heard of it. That would be a hike for me though!

 

[Sailingeric]

My LHBS appears to be going strong. They have great selection, good staff and I am happy with the prices. But I suspect the couple things that keeps it going or at least makes it worth while for the owner is they sell kegs of beer as well and they have a tap room next door.

 

[TallDan]

There's no conspiracy here, just simple numbers.

Think about how much money you actually spend on brewing. For me, I spent a ton of money in the first year or two of brewing; probably $3,000 in the first two years. (Kettles, keezer, grain mill, all this equipment adds up.) Since then, I've spent very little, in the range of maybe $300/yr, but probably less. Homebrew supply shops (both online and local brick and mortar) make a lot of money on new brewers, but comparatively little off of established brewers. Especially since established brewers tend to keep the suppliers margins thin by buying in bulk, participating in group buys, and shoping around online for the best deals.

So, the number of shops that would be supported by a growing home-brewing hobby is much larger than the number of shops supported by an established hobby. I can't find AHA memberhship info year-by-year, but take a look at this:

https://www.homebrewcon.org/conference/past-conferences/

Sure, homebrewcon attendance isn't a perfect metric, but there's certainly some coorelation of conference attendance and overall homebrewers in the US. 2008-2013 was huge growth for homebrewcon, the AHA, and homebrewing in general. Tons of new brewers were buying their equipment. Since 2013, that growth hasn't been there. Sure, there's new brewers all the time, but it's not like it was 5-6 years ago.

It makes perfect sense to me that supply shops are closing. They built their businesses on selling equipment to new brewers while homebrewing was exploding. Now they have to figure out how to keep alive by supplying existing brewers who buy much less equipment.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

There's no conspiracy here, just simple numbers.

It makes perfect sense to me that supply shops are closing. They built their businesses on selling equipment to new brewers while homebrewing was exploding. Now they have to figure out how to keep alive by supplying existing brewers who buy much less equipment.

From a business perspective, I would think you have to keep your lights on and the rent paid on grain, yeast, and CO2. My LHBS doesn't stock the parts to convert a cooler to a mash tun because home depot has all the parts for less than they would pay for them.

It's kinda like bike shops - they don't make money on bikes, period. They make money on tune-ups and tubes and consumables. There is so much competition on high-dollar items that the margins are pretty much zero.

Amazon and the internet are not going away, so trying to compete with them is bringing a water pistol to a gun fight. My LHBS has had the same Blichmann kettle in the same place in their shop for the last 6 months - and that's $100+ in wasted capital.

BUT I have bought $400+ in grain and yeast and hops in the last six months, and I don't even look at the prices on the bins. And grain is so heavy that online is never going to be cost-effective. So the LHBS has a monopoly on a low-margin product because they can buy it by the pallet and sell it to me at a 50% to 100% markup.

Another example: I need a new o-ring for my fermonster - a $2 to $3 item with almost zero demand. If my LHBS had that item in stock, it would be stupid. I will order one online - and my LHBS does not have to stock a low-margin, low-demand item, and everyone goes home happy. That's how small businesses survive and thrive in the internet economy. Find a niche, find the profit, and build loyalty.

 

[seatazzz]

I've been thinking it might also be a supply/demand thing as well, given the current state of the economy. Homebrewing (at least at the outset) ain't cheap. Every time I go on CL or OfferUP there's a lot of people getting out of homebrewing.

 

[beernutz]

I'm not one to Post New threads, or become involved in a thread but I do get most of my insight and Knowledge from Home brew talk.

Anyway This topic of Losing another LHBS Has me worried about this Hobby that I enjoy so much. I do very little online shopping and most of that is for equipment like fittings and valves, stuff that cant really be found at the LHBS. Other wise I would by it from the closest one to me because there prices are very competitive.

My journey into Home brewing started like other hobbies that I'm into, by not having much knowledge and experimenting, learning from others. Most of us Home brewers really enjoy the experimenting part. A lot of times the experiment doesn't turn out the way we expect, or even like. and other times it creates something we've never experienced before!

I tell you that when I walk into the Grain room at the LHBS, its like a Kid walking into a candy shop. Seeing all the different bins of malts and the flavors that they can produce can be over overwhelming to the perceptive thoughts of what can be created. Like most I walk into that room with a recipe in hand. When I walk out, most of the time I have something completely different. What I create with this may not make the best beer, match any type of style, BUT it is my own.

So for me losing another LHBS is a tragedy. Not having this option may make me quit this hobby.

Why are we losing so many LHBS? I think every one knows the answer to that. Big Beer! And now you can buy someone else's creativity and make it your own with the acquisitions of some smaller craft breweries.

I think the failure rate for small businesses is that only 50% survive through 5 years and only 30% through 10 so a LHBS closing is not that big of a shocker.

In my county of over 400,000 there's only one LHBS, in business since 2000, and it is only open 4 days a week from 11 to 6. The owner is in my homebrew club so we hear the in's and out's of that business regularly and how it is tough to compete with the e-HBStores even though his fixed costs are low due to his remote location.

 

[BBBF]

Yeah, brew camp. I'm way up on the north side of the city, so it's the best thing I've got. Never tried Bev Art, but I have heard of it. That would be a hike for me though!

I like Bev Art, but being on the northside, they might as well be in Milwaukee. Driving to Milwaukee might even take less time. I did it a few times when I was first starting out and making a lot of mead because the Bev Art was also the home of Wild Blossom Meadery.

I miss the Loop B&G because I could get there on my lunch break, but I also live a reasonable distance from the Kedzie store. I know I'm only one data point, but it did seem like they had too many locations or at least they were too close to each other for a hobby store.

 

[BrewZer]

Why are we losing so many LHBS? I think every one knows the answer to that. Big Beer! And now you can buy someone else's creativity and make it your own with the acquisitions of some smaller craft breweries.

My first chop at this question would be "on-line retailers." I think many have decided that the convenience and pricing (and until lately, the sales tax question) pushed them toward ordering from the online groups.

It's hard for the LHBS to compete with the volume those big guys online can hold, and the prices are usually pretty close when you add in shipping and tax.

I'm guilty of that myself, if I can find something I need that's definitely cheaper and I don't need right away. My LHBS is about 15 minutes away, whereas the online guys are just minutes away by keyboard and the stuff is on my front porch or in my mailbox 2 or 3 days later.

But I'm working on it -- i've spent over $300 bucks at my LHBS in the last month, and I'm trying to be a good local customer. I'm definitely going to buy my yeast locally as long as they stay in business -- and canned LME and specialty grains as long as the cost breaks out fairly. I think they're pretty busy and they also have an online store, so I'm not worried about stock not moving.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think it's online stores eating into LHBS sales that's driving them out of business.

 

[stylus1274]

I find this topic interesting. Interesting because I am actually opening a LHBS in the middle of September (barring disaster of course).

You would think reading the comments here would scare me away but it does not. I believe everything that has been mentioned here plays are part in a LHBS not surviving. Whether that be from online shops to less brewers or whatever.

I think it is on us brewers to keep the dream alive. That is a big reason I am opening one. I want to educate people and get them into this wonderful hobby.

There are a lot of brew stores throughout the country that not only make it but also do well.

 

[mizer67]

Stylus1274 - where are you opening up in the Tampa area? I'm local and would visit if you're nearby (I'm north of Tampa).

 

[Trail]

Personally I started in homebrewing because a nearby craft brewery changed the recipe of my favorite beer of all time. They had a hit on their hands and they decided to change the recipe! Sounds like one of those bad decisions a LHBS might potentially make.

Similar to me, actually. Long Trail's Hit The Trail Ale is delicious and impossible to get unless you live near the brewery (it's been in their autumn sampler four times that I've seen since 2011...)

Then I fell out of the hobby for time reasons... until 2017 hit and suddenly it's impossible to find craft beer where I live that isn't an IPA. I love me a good IPA, but I need delicious stouts, porters, and bitters... which just don't exist on the market in New Hampshire right now. Even the Pale Ales these days are 60+ IBUs, and taste like unbalanced IPAs.

I blame the hipsters. Damn their skinny jeans and cute girlfriends.

 

[MaxStout]

I share your general concern about the number of supply stores closing - but its not just bricks-and-mortar stores, online stores have closed, too. We have a semi-local chain, Brew & Grow, that had a number of stores in Illinois and Wisconsin, and they have had to contract - they were my LHBS but no longer. Honestly, the closest bricks-and-mortar stores to me (in the city center of Chicago) are so far away I don't consider them local.

Big Beer probably doesn't have a lot to do with it, though. Sure, the AB-Inbev purchase of NB/Midwest has some impact, but they were already one of the biggest online retailers, I would imagine. I think it has more to do with the cyclical nature of hobbies like ours and that we may perhaps be on a downward curve in terms of numbers.

We have a Brew & Grow in the Twin Cities, it's my go-to and just a few miles away. It seems to be doing well. They do get a good chunk of their business from the "grow" side. Lots of people growing, um, "herbs" in their basements.

Sorry to hear about your local Brew & Grow stores. Maybe the market has just reached a saturation point in some places.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I try to support the LHBS when I can. They don't carry much hardware, but I buy hoses, misc stuff like auto siphons etc. from them. I buy all my ingredients except hops from them. I greatly prefer buying 1/2 lb vacuum sealed foil bags. They sell 1 oz bags that are not vacuum sealed that I don't really trust.

They do make it convenient. I can email an ingredient list and they'll email when it's ready. I just walk in, Matt has my order ready (have to pull yeast from the fridge), I pay and leave. They email the receipt.

I do worry about them though. There is almost never another customer in there when I go in. I'll be bummed if they go out of business. I'm not sure what I'd do for yeast...buy a bunch in May for the summer and a batch in November for the winter?

 

[stylus1274]

Stylus1274 - where are you opening up in the Tampa area? I'm local and would visit if you're nearby (I'm north of Tampa).

I wish I could answer this. We are currently searching for a spot. I thought it would be much easier than it actually is locating something.

The big thing is being no closer than a 10 minute drive to Southern. We will find a nice place and then it's 5 minutes from them

How far are you from them? About 10 minutes or so?

 

[mitchard]

Why are we losing so many LHBS? I think every one knows the answer to that. Big Beer!

Not so much big beer as it was online competition in general. That came straight from the source in this instance. I'm sure there were other factors as well, so I wouldn't be quick to just blame InBev.

Between the online homebrew retailers and Amazon, there isn't much that can't be found with a few clicks. Plus it'll be shipped straight you your door, generally for cheaper than it can be had at a LHBS, even with shipping factored in.

HBH was my go-to since I started brewing. Sucks to see them go, but thats the nature of business unfortunately. I'll continue to buy most of my ingredients locally, though it's a little tougher now.

 

[stylus1274]

I will chime in here and say a LHBS can be successful if they work local and online.

I can't tell you how many shops I've seen that only rely on foot traffic. As everyone has mentioned, online sales is a big deal so you better be prepared for that.

Doesn't make sense to not try and get online sales.

 

[Trail]

I tried to talk my LHBS into letting me build them an online store before I moved. Loved shopping there, great folks. Guy who owned it hated the idea... said the personal, local touch was what mattered.

I live 90 miles away now and order from Northern Brewer (read: AB...) and I wish so much they'd listened to me.

 

[mizer67]

I wish I could answer this. We are currently searching for a spot. I thought it would be much easier than it actually is locating something.

The big thing is being no closer than a 10 minute drive to Southern. We will find a nice place and then it's 5 minutes from them

How far are you from them? About 10 minutes or so?

At least 20-25 min north in the Lutz area. I'd be interested in visiting if you end up on my side of town. There's nothing up this way in terms of LHBS.

 

[stylus1274]

At least 20-25 min north in the Lutz area. I'd be interested in visiting if you end up on my side of town. There's nothing up this way in terms of LHBS.

Oh you are really "North" Tampa then. Highly unlikely we make it to Lutz. Strategy is to be as central as possible to the area. Having a shop in Lutz unfortunately wouldn't be following that plan.

Are you a part of BEERS or any other local clubs?

 

[Horseflesh]

OP, which store are you referring to?

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I can't imagine how LHBS' make any money. There is a psychological benefit in owning a store. You are considered knowledgeable and important in the community. As with any store serving a hobby I am skeptical as to whether they are actually making money or if they are enjoying a labor of love. It is these endless wallets held by hobbyist store owners that would make owning a business focused LHBS very difficult.

As to the AB purchase of Midwest and NB, clearly they are in this to disrupt the distribution of homebrew supplies, so it would surprise me if the stores going out of business weren't impacted by a power play to limit their current distributers. AB are slowly but surely shoving privately owned craft beers off the grocery store shelves as well as increasing the price on those brands they do own. I am no business man, but ithink they are shrinking craft beer with the power they have with distributors. Right now some are resisting but the market is increasingly competitive.

 

[stylus1274]

Sorry, ignore

 

[stylus1274]

I can't imagine how LHBS' make any money. There is a psychological benefit in owning a store. You are considered knowledgeable and important in the community. As with any store serving a hobby I am skeptical as to whether they are actually making money or if they are enjoying a labor of love. It is these endless wallets held by hobbyist store owners that would make owning a business focused LHBS very difficult. /QUOTE]

Couldn't disagree more.

Basically what you are saying is rich home brewers own shops and they only survive because they dump their own cash flow into it.

Difficult? Sure. But so is any business you open. You just have to attack it right. There are plenty of LHBS's that are successful.

Open a half-ass shop with no intention on getting a piece of internet sales you will surely fail.

Open a nice shop plentiful in supplies in an area of need for one that also caters to online sales as well as hit other needs besides just selling supplies and you can be successful.

Is it harder now? You bet. But that doesn't make it impossible.

 

[redllama]

I try to support my LHBS when I can. The two that are closest to me are both in growler/bottle shops. One is ridiculously overpriced (most grain is $2/lb) where as the other has what I would consider "industry standard" prices for a LHBS.

However I do the majority of my grain shopping online. Why pay $1.50/lb for base grain when I can get it in 10# bags from Morebeer for $1.06/lb with free shipping? For the recipes that I brew most often I buy hops by the pound from various online shops and have cut my hop cost in half. I will say that I prefer to get my yeast locally, especially in the summer, knowing that it will be handled correctly.

I'm not saying that there isn't a place for LHBS in the market, but in a way it is similar to a local sporting goods store competing with Dick's. There will be some specialty items and convenience factor to getting it from your local guy at times, but for the majority of things the local guy can't compete with the big time national player.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Do you go to Brew Camp now? I've had the same experiences that you describe. The one south, BevArt is a pretty good store, small, but they've got everything and good folks who own/work there, too. But its on Western around 101st Street, so its not close to local for me in Pilsen.

Following up like any good HBT member would, just found out that Brew Camp has apparently closed without any notice. Apparently the last couple weeks they've been exceptionally short on supplies (more than normal), so I guess it makes sense.

https://brewcamp.com/ will give you a 503 message. The owner was a web developer, so it's not like that site went down without intention.

 

[Pappers_]

Following up like any good HBT member would, just found out that Brew Camp has apparently closed without any notice. Apparently the last couple weeks they've been exceptionally short on supplies (more than normal), so I guess it makes sense.

https://brewcamp.com/ will give you a 503 message. The owner was a web developer, so it's not like that site went down without intention.

Someone at CHAOS told me that, too. Yesterday, I got an order from Farmhouse Brewing Supply (that I had made the day before) and also put in an order for two bags of malt via a group buy at CHAOS.