Another dry yeast to compare to Saflager 34/70 at higher temps

[E_Rock]

After reading this excellent Brulosphy article shared by others on this site, http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fermentation-temperature-pt-4-lager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/, I am planning on brewing my first 10gal batch using the same recipe for his Munich Helles Exportbier. I'm excited at the prospect of a lager without dealing with lower temps. I am definitely going to use Saflager 34/70 in one of the fermenters, but I'm wondering if anyone can suggest another dry yeast to try in the other. Anyone else have any luck with a higher temp lager and a different yeast?

 

[catdaddy66]

The only other dry lager yeast that I have experience with is S-189 which was used in an Oktoberfest but at lager temps (50°). I have used a liquid yeast at ale temps (wlp810 San Francisco lager) with excellent results.

I recently purchased Papazian's house yeast that is for both ale and lager beers, Cry Havoc.

 

[lari]

i also tried it after reading Brulosphy experiment. unfortunately it didnt work for me. i had a split batch 34/70 vs s04 they both tasted the same to me - very ale like, not lager. dont let my failure discourage you though. next on the list is mangrove jacks californian lager.

 

[E_Rock]

i also tried it after reading Brulosphy experiment. unfortunately it didnt work for me. i had a split batch 34/70 vs s04 they both tasted the same to me - very ale like, not lager. dont let my failure discourage you though. next on the list is mangrove jacks californian lager.

Bummer. Do you recall what temp your fermented at? I'm going to give it a shot. I'll report back in a few weeks and let you know how it came out.

 

[lari]

temperature was a steady ambient 65f. i dont have a temp control so this could be it.

 

[casualbrewer]

The thing is with fermenting 34/70 a bit higher is it still requires some form of temp control. You may as well just ferment it colder to start with. Ambient temps are not a good form of control.

 

[E_Rock]

I've had decent luck so far with my "fermentation chamber". I have a back room in my basement than stays pretty cool and stable. I keep my fermenters in a rubbermaid tub filled with water. I toss a frozen water bottle at the begining. That coupled with the wet t-shirt & fan swamp cooler method seems to keep things pretty stable. I'm targeting 60-62F for this brew. One fermenter will have 34/70 and the other s-23. Hoping for the goodness.

 

[E_Rock]

Whoosh. I experience that sulfur smell this morning. I went down to check on the beer in the basement and the minute I walked in the door it hit me. Both fermenters are happily bubbling away but the sulfur is coming from the 34/70. The s-23 doesn't seem to be giving off anything but what I consider "normal" odors. Glad I had read some warnings regarding sulfur smells or I might have been rather concerned.

 

[dmtaylor]

I've got a yeast experiment running right now. California Common split two ways with W-34/70 at 69 F, and WLP810 at about 64 F. Should have initial results in a week or so. Both are chugging away nicely so far and both smell great with no sulfur or anything off really.

 

[E_Rock]

So it still smells rather sulfury, but it's starting to mellow a bit. I don't know if it's my imagination but when I smell the top of the airlock, there's an almost Heineken quality to the smell.

 

[applescrap]

I think it was brulosophy experiment four they used wlp800. I know it's not dry but it's another one to try. I currently have 800 and 802 fermenting right now. Both were super old though! Cheers and look forward to your results

 

[applescrap]

So it still smells rather sulfury, but it's starting to mellow a bit. I don't know if it's my imagination but when I smell the top of the airlock, there's an almost Heineken quality to the smell.

Yes that's what I smelled too! It smells like sulfur, but beneath is the lager scent you can't wait to drink. I was told that's why people lager, to get rid of that sulpher scent, but very shortly after opening the fermenter and racking the beer to a keg it all but dissipated. The slightest slightest scent/taste of it would appear mystically out of nowhere here and there though. Never through a whole beer just one sip.

 

[E_Rock]

Yes that's what I smelled too! It smells like sulfur, but beneath is the lager scent you can't wait to drink.[i/QUOTE]

Yup! I can't wait to try this beer. It's my first time using lager yeast of any kind or actually brewing a lager style beer. Up until this point it's been ales an more ales. If this yeast works out it will certainly open up a whole new world of styles.

 

[applescrap]

Yeah please share your results on the warm ferment lager thread!

 

[dmtaylor]

So I've been fermenting my Cali Common with W-34/70 at 69-71 F for the past 4 days...... and I've got to say, it smells clean as a whistle! No sulfur at all, not fruity at all. Just smells like wonderful malty & yeasty beer. Still fizzing away. Probably will be all done fermenting in the next couple of days. I'm really impressed, though. If I hadn't already heard about the cleanliness of this yeast from Brulosophy, I would have guessed this would be a fruity mess by now. But it isn't. It's just very clean and beery. Sure, it's only been 4 days, so anything is still possible I suppose. Maybe, maybe not.

 

[E_Rock]

It's interesting how varied the experiences are. In full disclosure, I don't bother to rehydrate. I've used dry yeast several times and I noticed little difference when rehdydrating vs sprinkling on top, so I just don't bother with the extra step now. Fermentation always starts within 12-18hrs of pitching. I had read that lager yeasts require higher pitching rates, so I used 2 packets.

The sulfur smell has mostly disappated. At least, I can no longer smell it in the room. If I take a whiff of the airlock, there's a hint of sulfur. I kinda like it. ;-)

They've been fermenting for 7 days now. I'm letting the temp ramp up to 65-66 or so and I'll keep it there for another week. Generally, I ferment for 14 days and then keg. I was thinking about letting these sit for another week, but on the other hand, as a control to my experiment, I kind of want to treat them the same as all my other beers.

 

[E_Rock]

I've been meaning to chime back in to let ya'll know how it came out. I ended up brewing a German Pilsner instead of the helles. The keg that used 34/70 is close to kicked. Man, I know every brewer is proud of their beer, but I feel like this might have been my best brew ever. It really was a remarkable beer. I am thrilled that I was able to brew a lager. After all these years assuming I couldn't since I didn't have a temperature controlled chamber, I feel like a have a whole new world of recipes available to me. The pilsner came out crisp and dry with a little of that northern europe funk. It was crystal clear and gorgeous! The second keg, fermented with S-23, will be tapped in the next week or two. Can't wait to see how it comes out.

 

[dmtaylor]

That's great news! Glad it turned out.

For whatever it's worth, I still haven't gotten around to bottling my California Common experiment described previously, but it's ready and been lagering for a month. Both lager yeasts fermented very cleanly even at relatively warm temperatures in primary. I'll have to do a taste test. Maybe later today.

 

[casualbrewer]

For record, generally that European funk we taste is a slight skunking. I would suspect something if your homebrew had the same flavor. If that's what you were going for then no worries I guess.

 

[E_Rock]

For record, generally that European funk we taste is a slight skunking. I would suspect something if your homebrew had the same flavor. If that's what you were going for then no worries I guess.

While fermenting the yeast gave off quite a bit of sulfur smell in the first few days then eventually disappated. There's something about the "funk" that reminds me of the sulfur. It's not the same characteristic as say the green bottle Heineken skunk taste. (I find Heineken in a can or on draft to taste quite different.) I'm not quite sure how to describe it, but it reminds me of pilsners I drank in germany or even german beers I've had on tap here in the US. There's just something different than an American lager. Perhaps it's the grain, maybe the yeast. I dunno. I'll be curious if the other keg had it. There were no sulfur qualities from the S-23 while fermenting.

 

[applescrap]

I've been meaning to chime back in to let ya'll know how it came out. I ended up brewing a German Pilsner instead of the helles. The keg that used 34/70 is close to kicked. Man, I know every brewer is proud of their beer, but I feel like this might have been my best brew ever. It really was a remarkable beer. I am thrilled that I was able to brew a lager. After all these years assuming I couldn't since I didn't have a temperature controlled chamber, I feel like a have a whole new world of recipes available to me. The pilsner came out crisp and dry with a little of that northern europe funk. It was crystal clear and gorgeous! The second keg, fermented with S-23, will be tapped in the next week or two. Can't wait to see how it comes out.

Awesome, my results are similar. The only bad experience I had was with old and near expired yeast. As with all the other ones the 10 gallons of helles modified in my basement right now were done two days later with 34/70. I will drink them when keg kicks. The reason lager calls for two packets is because people are putting them in cold. Another perk to warm ferment is you only need one. it's so important that results like yours and mine be documented somewhere. I felt the exact same. It was like a whole new world opened up. Bocks, marzen, dunkel, lager ipas nelipas, bud light. I think light lager would be so cheap to make. Havent made under 5 percent yet. A little adjunct to thin the body and hop in bulk. I am thinking about racking this simple lager onto raserries! Happy thanksgiving and look forward to more of your results.

 

[ncbrewer]

It was crystal clear and gorgeous!

Do you cold crash or use gelatin? Or did it settle clear on its own?

 

[E_Rock]

Do you cold crash or use gelatin? Or did it settle clear on its own?

I put the keg in the keezer and left it for a week while I was out of town. When I got back, I opened the keg and added gelatin and left it for another 36h or so before pouring my first pint. While it was pretty clear, I'd say it took another week or so to achieve crystal clarity.

 

[casualbrewer]

Awesome, my results are similar. The only bad experience I had was with old and near expired yeast. As with all the other ones the 10 gallons of helles modified in my basement right now were done two days later with 34/70. I will drink them when keg kicks. The reason lager calls for two packets is because people are putting them in cold. Another perk to warm ferment is you only need one. it's so important that results like yours and mine be documented somewhere. I felt the exact same. It was like a whole new world opened up. Bocks, marzen, dunkel, lager ipas nelipas, bud light. I think light lager would be so cheap to make. Havent made under 5 percent yet. A little adjunct to thin the body and hop in bulk. I am thinking about racking this simple lager onto raserries! Happy thanksgiving and look forward to more of your results.

You would be able to sway the whole community if you could make a light lager like bud light. It is probably the absolute hardest beer to replicate. Any other lager you may be able to "get by" with decent results at higher temps but not this style. Trust me I have been trying to make a light beer for some time. I have had good results but they are lacking. Pinpoint temp control, pitching rates, water profile, hop amounts, and proper yeast is mandatory. 34/70 would be a poor choice for this style imo. Best I results I have had are with wlp940 for producing clean crisp light beers. This style would be the holy grail of your warm fermented lager endeavor.

 

[Weezy]

I've never tried warm fermenting with lever yeasts. I did recently pick up a mangrove jack cal lager yeast though. I have two small, light better planned for that.

I will say that I like S-23 for my regular lagers. It can be relatively sweet (lower attenuating) so I brew lower adjunct beers and mash low, when using it. 34/70 is often sulfury and can leave some of that sharpness in the beer even after the nice clears...imho.

Anyway, posting to subscribe. I'm looking forward to the results. Cheers!

 

[applescrap]

You would be able to sway the whole community if you could make a light lager like bud light. It is probably the absolute hardest beer to replicate. Any other lager you may be able to "get by" with decent results at higher temps but not this style. Trust me I have been trying to make a light beer for some time. I have had good results but they are lacking. Pinpoint temp control, pitching rates, water profile, hop amounts, and proper yeast is mandatory. 34/70 would be a poor choice for this style imo. Best I results I have had are with wlp940 for producing clean crisp light beers. This style would be the holy grail of your warm fermented lager endeavor.

This is really good to know. Do you have a recipe to get me started? I would appreciate it much. Last time i drank bud, i googled it and felt like 8 ibus seemed about right. Is this close? I need to drink more less caloric beers for my weight.

 

[bonecitybrewco]

This is really good to know. Do you have a recipe to get me started? I would appreciate it much. Last time i drank bud, i googled it and felt like 8 ibus seemed about right. Is this close? I need to drink more less caloric beers for my weight.

8 is about right from everything I have read.

Here is something I just sat down and came up with based on a lot of info and research.

5.5 gallon batch at 85% efficiency.

2 lbs Pale 2 Row
2.75 lbs Pale 6 Row
2.75 lbs Flaked Rice

Mash at 147-148 for 2 hours.

Boil 90 mins

0.33 oz Cluster addition at 60 mins
OR
0.57 oz Saaz addition at 60 mins
OR
8 IBU worth of hop extract

Est OG: 1.040
IBU: 8.3
Color: 2.4 SRM
Est ABV: 4.3%

Estimated Calories: 130

Not quite the 99-110 (Depending on source) that is Bud Light, but a nice in-between. I have zero idea how they get as low as 99 calories. I know they high gravity brew but I wonder if they water it down below to like 1.030 and then dry it out completely with amylase enzyme and backsweeten with some form of 0 calorie sweetener? Not sure...

 

[Magnus314]

For light beer, dry it out with amylase enzyme in the secondary, and dilute it with water to 4.1% or so.

 

[applescrap]

8 is about right from everything I have read.

Here is something I just sat down and came up with based on a lot of info and research.

5.5 gallon batch at 85% efficiency.

2 lbs Pale 2 Row
2.75 lbs Pale 6 Row
2.75 lbs Flaked Rice

Mash at 147-148 for 2 hours.

Boil 90 mins

0.33 oz Cluster addition at 60 mins
OR
0.57 oz Saaz addition at 60 mins
OR
8 IBU worth of hop extract

Est OG: 1.040
IBU: 8.3
Color: 2.4 SRM
Est ABV: 4.3%

Estimated Calories: 130

Not quite the 99-110 (Depending on source) that is Bud Light, but a nice in-between. I have zero idea how they get as low as 99 calories. I know they high gravity brew but I wonder if they water it down below to like 1.030 and then dry it out completely with amylase enzyme and backsweeten with some form of 0 calorie sweetener? Not sure...

Wow, thanks so much for the great recipe and research. I will probably use it at some point. That being said, while interested in making a lighter beer, the odds of me doing a 2 hour mash and 90 minute boil for 5 pounds of grain to make swill essentially, are slim and none. The mash and boil time equals how long it takes me to make 10gallons in totality. I know its not what we are talking about, but I dont feel a need to match bud light because I can buy it so cheap. I do have no problem making a lighter beer and not only will it be cheap but also light. I am starting to think about what if I massively hopped it. A light ipa? Sounds good to me. I think your recipe gets right something that many get wrong... with such little grain the efficiency is bound to be high. Calculating for that is key. Thanks again and cheers.