Another CO2 tank lost, seeking help!

[jaydog2314]

So I lost a 20lb tank a few weeks back and quickly found the swivel nut attached to the 2nd regulator I just added was missing the nylon flare. So I put one of those little guys in and didn't seem to have any issues. I ended up replacing the 20lb with a 10lb due to height issues in my fridge. Fast forward to yesterday and I noticed that the 10lb tank is almost empty, UGH!

My setup is a dual body regulator, 2nd body has a line to a 2 valve manifold.

I disconnected my keg and after searching the forums did this:
-shut off valves from regulators to the lines/manifold
-set to 10 psi let it sit for a hour or two, PSI dropped to 0.
-disconnected 2nd body re-taped the connecting piece on both ends and reattached the 2 regulators.
-set psi back to 10 and after a hour the 2nd one had dropped to 0 but #1 was still close to 10.
-sprayed it all down with starsan and then soapy water

I see NO bubbles anywhere and I am so frustrated!

I read somewhere on the forums about submerging the whole thing. Is that a dumb idea? Set it it 10/20 PSI and put the whole tank/regulator setup under water? won't that fill the PSI gauges with water too?

Looking for help! I'm going to call the place I get the tanks filled(AirGas in Il) and see if they offer any leak check service b/c as it stands now in about 3 weeks I have gone thru a 20 & 10lb tank!

HELP!!!

 

[lschiavo]

I submerged mine once. The faces on my guages thread off so I took them off until things dried out. The leak may be in one of the gauges. That is probably the only way you're gonna find it if so.

 

[NTXBrauer]

The 30lbs of CO2 in 3 weeks starts to add up. I can't blame you for wanting to solve this problem quickly. IMO, it sounds like one of the regulators is faulty. They can leak, as can the gauges also. If you have taken it completely apart and re-taped all the joints, and it is still losing CO2, then I would guess the leak is coming from the regulator or possibly a gauge.

I personally would not submerse the gauges. It is doubtful they are water resistant, unless they are diving grade. I think you would be okay with getting the regulator wet. It should dry fine. Good Luck!

 

[jaydog2314]

the 2nd body is new too which sucks if that is the culprit. it does appear to be a slow leak b/c when at 20-30 PSI it's not coming out right away and I can't hear anything. I think part of the problem is too that when tightening down the 2nd regulator when it comes to being real tight it starts to loosen the connection to the 1st regulator. i feel like it has to be leaking on the connection point. the original regulator has never leaked. I hold onto that connector as hard as I can but at it seems like it turns still and loosens the connection to regulator #1....not sure if that makes any senses. I'm going to try the local airgas in the morning if they don't offer and leak testing i guess it's back to the drawing board. pretty sure though i won't submerge it b/c i feel like it will mess up the gauges!

 

[FuzzBeckersHB]

Jaydog, try a spray bottle with soapy water. Spray on all the fittings etc. bubbles equal leaking...
Hope that works..

 

[JuanMoore]

I'm going to try the local airgas in the morning if they don't offer and leak testing i guess it's back to the drawing board. pretty sure though i won't submerge it b/c i feel like it will mess up the gauges!

FWIW if Airgas offers to test it, they'll likely just submerge it in a large tank of water. That's what the Airgas locations here do.

 

[jaydog2314]

Jaydog, try a spray bottle with soapy water. Spray on all the fittings etc. bubbles equal leaking...
Hope that works..

tried it a few times, i see nothing! i might try some leak detector for the hardware store or the local airgas. thanks guys, hopefully I can find this leak ASAP!

 

[Nick_Jones]

You might consider testing the gauges by covering them with a large balloon and rubber bands, but it may be easier to acquire (XL) condoms and use electrical tape (stretches, so it may seal around connector nipples better).

 

[jaydog2314]

You might consider testing the gauges by covering them with a large balloon and rubber bands, but it may be easier to acquire (XL) condoms and use electrical tape (stretches, so it may seal around connector nipples better).

interesting, never would have thought of that. might have to try that one.

 

[jaydog2314]

frustration continues, local airgas will send it out to get tested for $60. going to pick up some leak detector at the hardware store b/c the soapy water ain't working, might as well get some balloons too I guess, running out of options!

 

[ChuckO]

Take a plastic bag large enough to hold the regulator and gauges and put them in it up to the bottle connection. Submerge the bag in water up to the neck of the bag to force most of the air out and then wrap a rubber band tightly around the bag on the pipe leading to the connection. Attach the regulator to your tank and pressurize everything. If you then submerge everything into water you should see the bag expand if there is a leak. Caution, you need a tall container for the water because you don't want to invert the CO2 bottle.

 

[JDGator]

when troubleshooting you want to work on eliminating one item at a time. i would pressurize the kegs and disconnect all QD's. then wait an hour or so and see if you still have air trapped. sometimes the lid won't seal too well. then i would pressurize the lines and manifolds. if you have ball valves anywhere, spray them good. mine all leak if not fully open or closed. then i would look for cracks in any place you have screwed a fitting into. brass is very easy to split if you tighten a fitting to much. especially when using teflon tape.

keep focusing on eliminating one item at a time until you find the problem.

 

[jaydog2314]

thanks for all the advice, yesterday I bought a small spray bottle of leak detector from the hardware store, glorified soapy water probably but it worked better than my soapy water mixture. I found a small leak on a PSI gauge, so I took it off and removed the 2nd body and the HI pressure gauge and put liquid telfon on all the connections, still had a small leak. Got a different washer for the tank to regulator connection as my leak spray showed a small leak coming from the back end of the pipe coming from the tank. I had been using the compression washer given to me by the AirGas people but apparently it wasn't working. I just had the regulators hold a PSI pressure for 6-7 hours. I have now reconnected my lines & manifold and I am making sure those are good too but I think between the leaky PSI gauge and connection to the tank I found my leaks, both of which were very very small and not easy to detect.

thanks again for the advice.

 

[IslandLizard]

Glad you found some of the culprits.
These leaks didn't show up before using soapy water or Starsan?

 

[PGEduardo]

Is there a suggested ratio of dish soap/water for leak detection?

 

[TheJasonT]

I would say look up a homemade bubble solution (like for kids) and use that.

Or check out a pro HVAC store and get a bottle of Big Blu Leak Detector. That stuff is amazing.

 

[fuzzy2133]

Is there a suggested ratio of dish soap/water for leak detection?

I have never read anything in writing however could be something some where on the Internet. We use this method when dealing with air leaks in tires, air lines and natural gas pipes (had a gas leak we couldn't find, luckily it was out neighbor with the utility changing their meter.). I have always added a colored dish soap to water until it turns the water to a noticeable tint of color. With slow leaks in tires sometimes it takes 2-3 min for a pin hole to make noticeable bubbles or one giant bubble.

 

[jaydog2314]

Glad you found some of the culprits.
These leaks didn't show up before using soapy water or Starsan?

yeah for some reason my soapy mixture didn't work plus I found when spraying it it was all bubbles when sprayed! maybe it was just me.

But I just checked again and all 3 lines and connections held PSI so it appears to be 100% leak proof so that's nice!

 

[501irishred]

Is there a suggested ratio of dish soap/water for leak detection?

. Depends on what your checking. Checking smooth surfaces (looking for pin holes in lines) a ratio of 1 part soap to 4 parts water ( don't skimp, use dawn). For checking fittings with voids (ie compression fittings) use a 1 to 1 ratio, making sure all voids can be completely covered. Think of it like blowing bubbles as a kid; if there was a "hole", you couldn't make a bubble. I'm a HVACR tech and use this method when products like big blue leak detector have failed.

 

[iaefebs]

I was frustrated with the commercial child bubble blowing soap. The kind that comes in a bottle with a wand that you dip and are supposed to blow bubbles with. That led to a google search to make a better bubble blowing solution. I tried a couple different recipes and It turns out that Joy detergent, water, and glycerin. (Available at the pharmacy), was the best recipe and added the rainbow colors to the bubbles, since I already had glycerin, (to freeze yeast) I gave it a shot. It was much better than any other bubble maker and I bet it would work great to spray fittings. I'll have to test.