Another 1 bbl brewer

[MikeRLynch]

The Pics!

The 120 gallon HLT

Think they're 2" triclovers

Beefy

Mounted securely on casters

 

[MikeRLynch]

4 60 gallon tanks

Also with beefy ball valves

Apologies for the blurry. The detached garage we'll be using for the brewery. It hasn't been used in a lot of years, so it's a bit dirty. Cleanup will be documented, this is the "before" shot

 

[MikeRLynch]

Hoping to mount the HLT on the workbench in the back, so the high ceilings will be helpful.

As we found it. (Well, except for the beer bottles. Those are ours)

Not sure if we're going to use this hose that came with the tanks

The only lid, we may need someone to fabricate a few more

Overhead power, with is important for the heating elements we'll be using.

Oil tank converted into a woodburning stove, heats the entire garage. I call it the Devil's *******

Previous owners method of theft deterrant

 

[MultumInParvo]

I am on Brewery overload. Wow. Sweet stuff everywhere! You're giving my equipment some serious envy.

 

[Orfy]

Bump to publish

 

[Reno_eNVy]

This is really cool and I am super jealous. Can't wait to see the rest of the process. Good luck!

 

[MikeRLynch]

Bump to publish

Thanks for the props Orfy!

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

This is really looking good, and I wish you the best of luck. I really like the fact your doing this step by step.
The learning curve should be interesting and please keep us updated.

 

[thebigt85]

Looks promising! Can't wait to see the progress pics!

 

[MikeRLynch]

Cleaning out all the debris is the first step, and not surprisingly the one none of us wants to do. With holidays on the way, I'm not sure how much progess we'll get done. Instead I've been using the time to think about design, research, and poke around the posts on this board for ideas.

I think we've decided that the HLT will be mounted up high, and will feed the mash tun via gravity. Also we're going to use triclover fittings to step down the ball valves from 2" to 1/2" QDs, so we can use the sanitary high temp hose and a march pump from homebrew stores. We can source 1/2" hoses and fittings much easier than 2" (which is way too big for our purposes anyway).

We're still working on the details. There is no water in the garage, and the only source is hand-dug well water that we'd have to pipe in from a spigot about 30 feet away. The water quality concerns me, so we'll be doing a series of small test batches to see what the profile is. I'm not sure how to fix the water if it isn't what we're looking for, but I guess we'll see after the batches are done.

 

[DRoyLenz]

I'm not sure how to fix the water if it isn't what we're looking for, but I guess we'll see after the batches are done.

I don't pretend to be an expert on this, especially since I just started researching this last night. But I would think if you're using well-water, a nice Reverse Osmosis system might be in order. That way you can build up the water just how you want it.

 

[bendavanza]

Mike
Many of the march pumps have 3/4" inlets/outlets, and you could find silicone hose to match. I think with the quantity you are dealing with, the 1/2" might seem slow. I could be wrong, though. And RO may be your best bet, considering how sulfury well water tends to be (at least where I live, maybe yours is amazing). RO is generally slow, though unless you buy a big system. You could set it up to fill the HLT over a few days, unless you're planning to brew every day.

 

[MikeRLynch]

Eesh, not sure about RO. I know the principle, but I'm not sure it's in the budget. I'm desperately hoping the well water produces good beer, but even if it does I'm concerned with it changing with the seasons (this well is over a hundred years old.) Right now water quality/quantity is our biggest hurdle. The reason we're using the 120 gallon tank as HLT is so we can gradually fill it up over the course of a week or more and not drain the well (the house still needs it). This way we can use the HLT as more of a holding/hot water tank for all brewday operations, including cleanup.

 

[Pangea]

Eesh, not sure about RO. I know the principle, but I'm not sure it's in the budget. I'm desperately hoping the well water produces good beer, but even if it does I'm concerned with it changing with the seasons (this well is over a hundred years old.) Right now water quality/quantity is our biggest hurdle. The reason we're using the 120 gallon tank as HLT is so we can gradually fill it up over the course of a week or more and not drain the well (the house still needs it). This way we can use the HLT as more of a holding/hot water tank for all brewday operations, including cleanup.

I'd recommend a simpler approach. 2 filters. One for removing sediment and iron. The next one is a carbon filter to remove other tastes, like chlorine. I use an activated carbon filter for my 1.5bbl setup and love it. I'm just carbon filtering my city water. McMaster has all kinds of filters and housings. Check them out. Apologies for picture quality, but see my filter as an example (the blue thing):

 

[MikeRLynch]

Removing sediment and iron is certainly something we should do, but the well water won't have any chlorine in it. Activated charcoal seems to work better with municipal water sources. We're the only ones who use this well.

BTW if I may be so bold, your setup is dead sexy

 

[Pangea]

Removing sediment and iron is certainly something we should do, but the well water won't have any chlorine in it. Activated charcoal seems to work better with municipal water sources. We're the only ones who use this well.

BTW if I may be so bold, your setup is dead sexy

Yes, you may be right about the activated carbon filter. They're cheap and could be used for more than just removing chlorine. It removes other sources of taste and flavor in water. I dont have any data to show if it would affect well water, but I'd recommend looking into using the carbon too. Just my $0.02.

About my setup - just wait until you see it fully setup and in action. I'm getting my couplings welded on this holiday weekend and can then install the 20,000 watts of brewing power, argh argh argh! The hlt and mlt are both controlled by PID to electric elements. The mlt is an external element. The boil kettle heat is controlled with a potentiometer to regulate the intensity of the boil and allows control to a consistent boil off rate.

 

[DarksideFermentation]

OP, i would get a welder and have him cut the nice 2" valves off the bottom of the tank, patch the holes with a small piece of SS, and reattach the valve to the side of the tank, probalem solved. thats not a hard job for a decent welder.

 

[MikeRLynch]

That's a LOT of welding, and unfortunately not in the budget. The existing outlets will work fine I'm sure, we just need a decent false bottom. I have a little experiance with welding (mig only) and given the equipment, I'm sure I could get some stuff done, but we're doing this on a shoestring. Don't fix what aint broken

 

[MikeRLynch]

Lag in updates, I know. Life gets in the way.

The building we'll be using

The water source is the spigot in the foreground, we need to bury it and run it the 30 feet into the brewhouse.

Before pic, a little smokey

Lots of old haz-mat to deal with

 

[MikeRLynch]

Sparkin up the Devils *******. It was 40 degrees today, but that thing throws so much heat I ended up in a tshirt.

100ft copper 1" tubing, somehow aquired for free. Complicated insurance thing, no time to get into it now

Not sure what to do with it yet, might have to use it to run the water from that spigot in front

Sketching out floorplans

 

[MikeRLynch]

Some stainless steel sinks that we'll be installing soon. They're 16 ft long (!)

Taking the casters off the tanks to mount them to the workbench

 

[MikeRLynch]

One mounted...

Two mounted! The HLT will be mounted directly to the left of the lefthand tank.

 

[bendavanza]

100' of 1" copper sounds like a bad ass herms coil, or IC for a setup your size. Jaybird on this forum could cut/fabricate some false bottoms for you.

 

[MikeRLynch]

I shudder to think of the volume of water required to fill 100 ft of 1" diameter tube for an IC I've already looked at Jaybirds stuff, and it looks like something we'll be saving up for.

On another note, anyone have experience with digging/plumbing water lines? Our water source is a well tap that's about 30 ft from the brewhouse. We need to put a 't' off of it (below the frost line) and run piping to the building. From there it needs to come up 5 to 6 feet to reach our HLT. We're probably going to need pumps, the water pressure is almost nil out there. I'm not sure about pipe diameter, pipe material, insulation, what kind of pumps needed, etc.

 

[Vinic]

I shudder to think of the volume of water required to fill 100 ft of 1" diameter tube for an IC I've already looked at Jaybirds stuff, and it looks like something we'll be saving up for.

On another note, anyone have experience with digging/plumbing water lines? Our water source is a well tap that's about 30 ft from the brewhouse. We need to put a 't' off of it (below the frost line) and run piping to the building. From there it needs to come up 5 to 6 feet to reach our HLT. We're probably going to need pumps, the water pressure is almost nil out there. I'm not sure about pipe diameter, pipe material, insulation, what kind of pumps needed, etc.

Here's the first order of business for the digging project. Make your one call they will have every utility company call you to setup appointments to locate any utility that's buried. I suppose you could skip this if you are absolutely sure that there are no other utilities in the area, but around here it doesn't cost anything to have them come mark where stuff is at, and it's a good thing to know, and a bit of peace o' mind.

Next is to find out your frostline depth and to be sure to keep the pipe that low the entire length of the run. If your building has no permanent heat (I saw your "Devil's A'hole"... gotta love it!), then you'll want to put the same type of frost-free valve on your indoor fixture as you have outside.

Some folks will use a backhole to dig a trench like you're going to need, but I prefer a ditch trencher (ditch witch is a popular brand around here). It digs a relatively narrow trench and does it pretty quickly. I rent just a walk behind and it's fairly easy to handle.

The fun part for you will be after you get to the building. Looks like you have a concrete slab. Only way I know of to get through that is with a jack hammer. If you do much work in here, I'd consider putting in a drain system too, while you have all the equipment around and the place tore up anyway.

As for pipe size, matching the existing is a pretty safe bet.

Looks like a fun project. I've subscribed and will be following along as we do ours! I have some serious sink envy going on, and your tanks look ten times nicer all setup pretty on that bench. I'd be a bit concerned about cleaning around that wood though! Any plans to cover/paint it?​

 

[RonRock]

Good advice Vinic. Although if they were to rent a mini excavator they would be able to dig a hole large enough to make the connection wherever they decide to tap off the existing supply. I'd assume that would be at the yard hydrant. Probably about the same cost. And usable inside the building for the inside work.

Or it could be done the hard way. No need to explain.

Just my unsolicited .02c

 

[MultumInParvo]

That is a lot of copper. Pretty sweet that you got it for free.

I am still in awe of the pots, they're HUGE. It also looks like the clean up is going well. I am excited to see this thing done!

 

[MikeRLynch]

Thanks for that advice Vinic, we were trying to decide what specifically we needed to rent to get this done. My friend pictured in the above pics is an electrician, so he's got some contracter connections. If he can't rustle something up, we might have to go for the mini excavator.

As for coming up through the slab floor, right now that's a no-go. Unfortunately, this property is rented and while we haven't asked, I'm fairly sure jackhammering holes isn't kosher. We can see though, the landlord is very hands off with the property.

Our initial idea is to come up next to the slab and go in through the side of the building. The whole bulding is uninsulated, so we would have to figure out a way to insulate that exposed pipe. We would only need about a foot and a half to come up from the ground and then into the wall.

Once inside, I planned on being able to shut the water off at the source coming in from the wall, and then dumping/flushing the pipes inside so they dont freeze when not in use. Plausible? Can the exposed pipe be insulated enough for that to work?

 

[Vinic]

Thanks for that advice Vinic, we were trying to decide what specifically we needed to rent to get this done. My friend pictured in the above pics is an electrician, so he's got some contracter connections. If he can't rustle something up, we might have to go for the mini excavator.

As for coming up through the slab floor, right now that's a no-go. Unfortunately, this property is rented and while we haven't asked, I'm fairly sure jackhammering holes isn't kosher. We can see though, the landlord is very hands off with the property.

Hmmmm, does he like beer!?

Can the exposed pipe be insulated enough for that to work?

Insulation alone will not work. You'll need a heat source. The idea of going below frost line is to first insulate from the air, but it's using the warmth coming from the core of the earth as a heat source. Fortunately, there is a lot of earth between your pipe and the core, insulating it from that direction so you don't have instant steam, or like, melted pipes!!!

There are heat tapes that can be used, but I would vie for just a frost free tap outside, then provide a T and valve inside at the lowest point to drain the water after each use.

 

[dingusmingus]

I shudder to think of the volume of water required to fill 100 ft of 1" diameter tube for an IC

(pi*.5^2)*12*100 = 942.477796 cubic inches

= 4.07999 gallons

BTW, great project!

 

[MikeRLynch]

(pi*.5^2)*12*100 = 942.477796 cubic inches

= 4.07999 gallons

Ok, first of all, wow. You paid attention in math class.

Secondly, that's 4 gallons to fill up the tube. The water is being pumped through at a rate of 5-7 gal per minute. Assuming cooling would take 30 minutes, that would be at least 150 gallons of cold water required. At little much for our handdug well.

Good math though!

 

[bendavanza]

If you were to collect that water to be used for the next batch (already heated quite a bit) and cleaning it would not be going to waste. You also could probably throttle back the flow rate for optimum cooling, and once you get down to a certain temp, start recirculating.

 

[klyph]

A little constructive criticism, but it doesn't seem like your well is adequate for the level of brewing you're planning. I know wells are very expensive, but water is literally the life blood of a brewery. It's the main ingredient. If you run out of water, or your well fails at an inopportune time, you'll be all kinds of screwed.
Were I you, I'd give more priority and budget for a reliable water supply. Seems it would prevent a multitude of headaches down the road.

 

[dingusmingus]

I'm no physicist (nor do I play one on TV) but is seems the volume of water you need to cool down the wort has everything to do with the difference in temperature between the water and the wort, and little to do with the size of the chiller pipe. A big pipe will have a bigger gallon-per-minute flow rate, but will also take less time to chill the wort. No?

 

[MikeRLynch]

@klyph Yes, we absolutely have looked into our water supply issue, and we're drafting up the proposal to the landlord for the new well as we speak As of right now we're still homebrewers, so production consistancy isn't a priority. However if this starts to pan out and look commercially viable, a new well is paramount.

@ Dingusmingus But doesn't the pipe have to be full, with water contacting all the sides in order for heat to be exchanged from the wort outside to the water inside? Actual question, I'm honestly not sure

 

[klyph]

@ Dingusmingus But doesn't the pipe have to be full, with water contacting all the sides in order for heat to be exchanged from the wort outside to the water inside? Actual question, I'm honestly not sure

I'm no mechanical engineer, but what you're after is surface area. If the diameter is too large, the water in the pipe will be displaced before it has a chance to absorb the heat to it's full potential. A longer thinner coil can have the water flow at a higher rate due to it's increased surface area.

 

[Mista_Sparkle]

I'm no mechanical engineer, but what you're after is surface area. If the diameter is too large, the water in the pipe will be displaced before it has a chance to absorb the heat to it's full potential. A longer thinner coil can have the water flow at a higher rate due to it's increased surface area.

well, surface area is good, but you also need a high mass flow rate and a high temperature differential.

That 100' tube has a surface area of about 26 ft^3

I am a little nervous about that shelf you have the 2 60 gallon tanks on, that should be one hell of a beefy bench cause it will be holding 1000 lbs of water...

 

[cascadia]

Would it be possible to run a hose from the well tap to the brewhouse through a filter and into the HLT? Of course it would require draining after each use. I have the same situation, my new brewery is about 25' from the nearest water source. I considered digging a trench, but in the end the hose gave the most flexibility and lowest investment at this point. I plan on doing something more permanent in the future after I have used the system for a while.

 

[MikeRLynch]

Would it be possible to run a hose from the well tap to the brewhouse through a filter and into the HLT? Of course it would require draining after each use. I have the same situation, my new brewery is about 25' from the nearest water source. I considered digging a trench, but in the end the hose gave the most flexibility and lowest investment at this point. I plan on doing something more permanent in the future after I have used the system for a while.

This may be a viable option, until funds can be secured for more permanant solution. Do you have any trouble with water pressure going that distance? Our flow out of that tap is a little weak. We were thinking about a pump or something inline.

 

[cascadia]

Water pressure is not a problem for me. I'm on the municipal water system.

Seems that with a pump you would need to fill some kind of reservoir tank from the well, then pump from that vessel with a submersible pump. All that would need to be insulated to prevent freezing. What about slowly filling the hlt over night or the day before? Put a float switch on it and the movement of water may prevent it from freezing in the hose.

I'm sure there is someone on here with well experience that can give you better advice on how to rig that up. Either way, I like what you have going so far and am interested in how things unfold for you.