Another 1 bbl brewer

[MikeRLynch]

Some stainless steel sinks that we'll be installing soon. They're 16 ft long (!)

Taking the casters off the tanks to mount them to the workbench

 

[MikeRLynch]

One mounted...

Two mounted! The HLT will be mounted directly to the left of the lefthand tank.

 

[bendavanza]

100' of 1" copper sounds like a bad ass herms coil, or IC for a setup your size. Jaybird on this forum could cut/fabricate some false bottoms for you.

 

[MikeRLynch]

I shudder to think of the volume of water required to fill 100 ft of 1" diameter tube for an IC I've already looked at Jaybirds stuff, and it looks like something we'll be saving up for.

On another note, anyone have experience with digging/plumbing water lines? Our water source is a well tap that's about 30 ft from the brewhouse. We need to put a 't' off of it (below the frost line) and run piping to the building. From there it needs to come up 5 to 6 feet to reach our HLT. We're probably going to need pumps, the water pressure is almost nil out there. I'm not sure about pipe diameter, pipe material, insulation, what kind of pumps needed, etc.

 

[Vinic]

I shudder to think of the volume of water required to fill 100 ft of 1" diameter tube for an IC I've already looked at Jaybirds stuff, and it looks like something we'll be saving up for.

On another note, anyone have experience with digging/plumbing water lines? Our water source is a well tap that's about 30 ft from the brewhouse. We need to put a 't' off of it (below the frost line) and run piping to the building. From there it needs to come up 5 to 6 feet to reach our HLT. We're probably going to need pumps, the water pressure is almost nil out there. I'm not sure about pipe diameter, pipe material, insulation, what kind of pumps needed, etc.

Here's the first order of business for the digging project. Make your one call they will have every utility company call you to setup appointments to locate any utility that's buried. I suppose you could skip this if you are absolutely sure that there are no other utilities in the area, but around here it doesn't cost anything to have them come mark where stuff is at, and it's a good thing to know, and a bit of peace o' mind.

Next is to find out your frostline depth and to be sure to keep the pipe that low the entire length of the run. If your building has no permanent heat (I saw your "Devil's A'hole"... gotta love it!), then you'll want to put the same type of frost-free valve on your indoor fixture as you have outside.

Some folks will use a backhole to dig a trench like you're going to need, but I prefer a ditch trencher (ditch witch is a popular brand around here). It digs a relatively narrow trench and does it pretty quickly. I rent just a walk behind and it's fairly easy to handle.

The fun part for you will be after you get to the building. Looks like you have a concrete slab. Only way I know of to get through that is with a jack hammer. If you do much work in here, I'd consider putting in a drain system too, while you have all the equipment around and the place tore up anyway.

As for pipe size, matching the existing is a pretty safe bet.

Looks like a fun project. I've subscribed and will be following along as we do ours! I have some serious sink envy going on, and your tanks look ten times nicer all setup pretty on that bench. I'd be a bit concerned about cleaning around that wood though! Any plans to cover/paint it?​

 

[RonRock]

Good advice Vinic. Although if they were to rent a mini excavator they would be able to dig a hole large enough to make the connection wherever they decide to tap off the existing supply. I'd assume that would be at the yard hydrant. Probably about the same cost. And usable inside the building for the inside work.

Or it could be done the hard way. No need to explain.

Just my unsolicited .02c

 

[MultumInParvo]

That is a lot of copper. Pretty sweet that you got it for free.

I am still in awe of the pots, they're HUGE. It also looks like the clean up is going well. I am excited to see this thing done!

 

[MikeRLynch]

Thanks for that advice Vinic, we were trying to decide what specifically we needed to rent to get this done. My friend pictured in the above pics is an electrician, so he's got some contracter connections. If he can't rustle something up, we might have to go for the mini excavator.

As for coming up through the slab floor, right now that's a no-go. Unfortunately, this property is rented and while we haven't asked, I'm fairly sure jackhammering holes isn't kosher. We can see though, the landlord is very hands off with the property.

Our initial idea is to come up next to the slab and go in through the side of the building. The whole bulding is uninsulated, so we would have to figure out a way to insulate that exposed pipe. We would only need about a foot and a half to come up from the ground and then into the wall.

Once inside, I planned on being able to shut the water off at the source coming in from the wall, and then dumping/flushing the pipes inside so they dont freeze when not in use. Plausible? Can the exposed pipe be insulated enough for that to work?

 

[Vinic]

Thanks for that advice Vinic, we were trying to decide what specifically we needed to rent to get this done. My friend pictured in the above pics is an electrician, so he's got some contracter connections. If he can't rustle something up, we might have to go for the mini excavator.

As for coming up through the slab floor, right now that's a no-go. Unfortunately, this property is rented and while we haven't asked, I'm fairly sure jackhammering holes isn't kosher. We can see though, the landlord is very hands off with the property.

Hmmmm, does he like beer!?

Can the exposed pipe be insulated enough for that to work?

Insulation alone will not work. You'll need a heat source. The idea of going below frost line is to first insulate from the air, but it's using the warmth coming from the core of the earth as a heat source. Fortunately, there is a lot of earth between your pipe and the core, insulating it from that direction so you don't have instant steam, or like, melted pipes!!!

There are heat tapes that can be used, but I would vie for just a frost free tap outside, then provide a T and valve inside at the lowest point to drain the water after each use.

 

[dingusmingus]

I shudder to think of the volume of water required to fill 100 ft of 1" diameter tube for an IC

(pi*.5^2)*12*100 = 942.477796 cubic inches

= 4.07999 gallons

BTW, great project!

 

[MikeRLynch]

(pi*.5^2)*12*100 = 942.477796 cubic inches

= 4.07999 gallons

Ok, first of all, wow. You paid attention in math class.

Secondly, that's 4 gallons to fill up the tube. The water is being pumped through at a rate of 5-7 gal per minute. Assuming cooling would take 30 minutes, that would be at least 150 gallons of cold water required. At little much for our handdug well.

Good math though!

 

[bendavanza]

If you were to collect that water to be used for the next batch (already heated quite a bit) and cleaning it would not be going to waste. You also could probably throttle back the flow rate for optimum cooling, and once you get down to a certain temp, start recirculating.

 

[klyph]

A little constructive criticism, but it doesn't seem like your well is adequate for the level of brewing you're planning. I know wells are very expensive, but water is literally the life blood of a brewery. It's the main ingredient. If you run out of water, or your well fails at an inopportune time, you'll be all kinds of screwed.
Were I you, I'd give more priority and budget for a reliable water supply. Seems it would prevent a multitude of headaches down the road.

 

[dingusmingus]

I'm no physicist (nor do I play one on TV) but is seems the volume of water you need to cool down the wort has everything to do with the difference in temperature between the water and the wort, and little to do with the size of the chiller pipe. A big pipe will have a bigger gallon-per-minute flow rate, but will also take less time to chill the wort. No?

 

[MikeRLynch]

@klyph Yes, we absolutely have looked into our water supply issue, and we're drafting up the proposal to the landlord for the new well as we speak As of right now we're still homebrewers, so production consistancy isn't a priority. However if this starts to pan out and look commercially viable, a new well is paramount.

@ Dingusmingus But doesn't the pipe have to be full, with water contacting all the sides in order for heat to be exchanged from the wort outside to the water inside? Actual question, I'm honestly not sure

 

[klyph]

@ Dingusmingus But doesn't the pipe have to be full, with water contacting all the sides in order for heat to be exchanged from the wort outside to the water inside? Actual question, I'm honestly not sure

I'm no mechanical engineer, but what you're after is surface area. If the diameter is too large, the water in the pipe will be displaced before it has a chance to absorb the heat to it's full potential. A longer thinner coil can have the water flow at a higher rate due to it's increased surface area.

 

[Mista_Sparkle]

I'm no mechanical engineer, but what you're after is surface area. If the diameter is too large, the water in the pipe will be displaced before it has a chance to absorb the heat to it's full potential. A longer thinner coil can have the water flow at a higher rate due to it's increased surface area.

well, surface area is good, but you also need a high mass flow rate and a high temperature differential.

That 100' tube has a surface area of about 26 ft^3

I am a little nervous about that shelf you have the 2 60 gallon tanks on, that should be one hell of a beefy bench cause it will be holding 1000 lbs of water...

 

[cascadia]

Would it be possible to run a hose from the well tap to the brewhouse through a filter and into the HLT? Of course it would require draining after each use. I have the same situation, my new brewery is about 25' from the nearest water source. I considered digging a trench, but in the end the hose gave the most flexibility and lowest investment at this point. I plan on doing something more permanent in the future after I have used the system for a while.

 

[MikeRLynch]

Would it be possible to run a hose from the well tap to the brewhouse through a filter and into the HLT? Of course it would require draining after each use. I have the same situation, my new brewery is about 25' from the nearest water source. I considered digging a trench, but in the end the hose gave the most flexibility and lowest investment at this point. I plan on doing something more permanent in the future after I have used the system for a while.

This may be a viable option, until funds can be secured for more permanant solution. Do you have any trouble with water pressure going that distance? Our flow out of that tap is a little weak. We were thinking about a pump or something inline.

 

[cascadia]

Water pressure is not a problem for me. I'm on the municipal water system.

Seems that with a pump you would need to fill some kind of reservoir tank from the well, then pump from that vessel with a submersible pump. All that would need to be insulated to prevent freezing. What about slowly filling the hlt over night or the day before? Put a float switch on it and the movement of water may prevent it from freezing in the hose.

I'm sure there is someone on here with well experience that can give you better advice on how to rig that up. Either way, I like what you have going so far and am interested in how things unfold for you.

 

[kajon]

It seems everyone is concerned about where the outlet is on your tanks. If pulling liquid from the side a little above bottom is ideal, then why not put a short length of SS pipe in your drain to raise the spot where you are pulling the water. Seems like a good compromise. I would not do anymore welding on them, they are beauties.

 

[MikeRLynch]

Updates:

HLT installed, bolted into the concrete floor.

Tippy dump for Mash Tun installed

Testing the strength of the tippy dump

 

[MikeRLynch]

Seems to work fine

What goes up must come down

 

[MikeRLynch]

I have no idea why, but someone climbed into the furnace...

Next project is installing the sinks and drain system

 

[Desert_Sky]

Looking really good!

What about fermentation? Temp controlling and vessels? Have you figured out that issue yet?

 

[MikeRLynch]

Looking really good!

What about fermentation? Temp controlling and vessels? Have you figured out that issue yet?

Yup, we're going to frame out a room on the other side of the shop and run an air-conditioner/heater controlled by johnson controllers. The tanks themselves are going to be the plastic conicals from the bio-diesel suppliers. We still have two of the smaller SS tanks leftover, and I've been looking at those to see if they are viable fermentors. I'm also looking at simple 55 gal plastic drums, to at least initially keep costs down.

 

[Desert_Sky]

Awesome. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

 

[rking]

Im watching this one! Awesome build!

 

[MikeRLynch]

Here's the flow chart of how the plumbing is going to go (at least for now)

Has anyone used a grant before? Our local brewpub uses it on his 7 bbl system. Essentially, the wort is drained from the mash tun via gravity into the grant (just another small tank) and is pumped out into the boil kettle from there. This way, there is no suction on the grain bed of the mash tun, and therefore no compacted grain bed. With our drains being located on the bottom of the tanks, I thought this was an attractive solution. Thoughts?

 

[cheezydemon3]

I am getting a 32 gallon "brute" food grade trash can. Not even the same ball park, but I could probably get close to the 31 gallon mark.


It is a huge jump for me.

I will be mashing specialty grains in my mash tun and boiling DME and 5 gallons, topping up to 28 gallons or so.

I will probably only do this for my haus session beer once every 6 months or so, but it makes lots of sense to me!

6 times the beer in the same amount of time.