Anise and hops

[ZenFitness]

Hi all,

I'm considering formulating an IPA recipe that incorporates anise. Obviously it will yield an interesting flavor profile, and I would like for the anise to be subtle to moderate with a strong hop presence to balance the two together.

However, I'm not sure this is a good combo as I've never brewed with anise before. Has anyone done this, and/or can anyone recommend particular hops to go together with the anise?

 

[Beezer94]

Stella hops would probably work...
Stella is a new aroma variety which contributes hoppy and floral notes, with subtle hints of anise and a satisfying fullness of palate. Stella is reminiscent of, yet distinctly different in character to noble European varieties, and provides a contrast to the citrus an..

 

[tagz]

I would imagine its not particularly healthy to be putting hops in your anise but to each his own.

 

[roastquake]

I made an anise porter with too much anise. I use a half ounce for 5 gallons, if I do it again I would cut back to a quarter ounce or even less. Never used it in a hoppy beer so that may not help. The porter got a lot better with age and was my go-to potion for an upset stomach

 

[fearwig]

I think any of the C hops would pair nicely with anise. Maybe NB! From cooking experience I'd recommend star anise for a little more sweet complexity. I have brewed with black cardamom and plan to again soon--based on my use of that in a 5.5gal batch vs. cooking with it I recommend using a little more spice than you think you need, I think the yeast blows a good bit of it off in primary.

As for styles I think you'd want caramel or yeast flavors--belgian yeast, dark amber color.

 

[Calichusetts]

Anise is so strong...be careful. I did a Bopils a few years back that was undrinkable for months from it. Just about every thread on anise also warns about how potent it is.

 

[ZenFitness]

Thanks Cali, how much did you use?

 

[wileaway]

I agree that (st)ella can contribute anise notes. I brewed 5 gallons of stout recently and the 15 minute addition was .5 oz (st)ella and these flavors are definitely present. I've also had good success pairing (st)ella with 'C' hops, but I don't think that the anise notes from the hops would ever be more than a faint hint in the background without actual anise in your beer. Good Luck.

 

[zendog]

I've used star anise on 3 occasions. The first time I used 1/2 star (4 leaves) in a Belgian Pale. I could hardly distinguish the flavor. Second time was in a porter with 2 whole stars. Too overwhelming. The third time was in a Wit with 1 whole star. Just right! Each time I just broke the leaves off (no grind) added 5 min before FO.

 

[tagz]

Tough crowd.

 

[BigSumpin]

Lightly roasted fennel (anise) seeds taste better.

 

[wileaway]

@zendog

What size of batch were you adding the anise to?

 

[fearwig]

Fennel is one of many anise-ish tasting spices but it's definitely not anise (aniseed).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fennel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anise

It's good, but I don't know about in beer--kind of a heavier, grassier taste. Caraway should be good in beer. I'm sure someone's done that with rye.

 

[fearwig]

I've used star anise on 3 occasions. The first time I used 1/2 star (4 leaves) in a Belgian Pale. I could hardly distinguish the flavor. Second time was in a porter with 2 whole stars. Too overwhelming. The third time was in a Wit with 1 whole star. Just right! Each time I just broke the leaves off (no grind) added 5 min before FO.

That sounds like a pretty good amount to me. If you ground it you'd get a little more oomph--maybe toss it in after primary fermentation is up for a "brighter" flavor.

 

[BigSumpin]

Fennel is one of many anise-ish tasting spices but it's definitely not anise (aniseed).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fennel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anise

It's good, but I don't know about in beer--kind of a heavier, grassier taste. Caraway should be good in beer. I'm sure someone's done that with rye.

You are correct...thanks for reminding me.

 

[roastquake]

When have ya'll been adding the anise? In the porter I mentioned earlier in this thread, I boiled 1/2 oz of whole star anise for 15 minutes (in 5 gallons). It smelled like oregano while it boiled, and the anise flavor was overpowering until it had aged for about 6 months or more.

 

[zendog]

@zendog

What size of batch were you adding the anise to?

5 gallon batch

FWIW, I used it in combination with orange zest and coriander for the belgian-style ales. Nice mix. With the porter recipe, I used anise alone and it was too one-dimensional.

 

[fearwig]

When have ya'll been adding the anise? In the porter I mentioned earlier in this thread, I boiled 1/2 oz of whole star anise for 15 minutes (in 5 gallons). It smelled like oregano while it boiled, and the anise flavor was overpowering until it had aged for about 6 months or more.

How many stars do you think that was? A 1/2oz sounds like a heck of a lot, maybe ten stars? Twenty? Amazed you can drink it now!

Yeah, when I said "use more than you think you need" I was thinking people would be really cautious with it, I guess. I'm used to cooking with the stuff. Like three or four stars is enough for a solid cup or two of fivespice powder, and there it's up against szechuan and other strong flavors, and it's still the dominant smell.

 

[roastquake]

How many stars do you think that was? A 1/2oz sounds like a heck of a lot, maybe ten stars? Twenty? Amazed you can drink it now!

Yeah, when I said "use more than you think you need" I was thinking people would be really cautious with it, I guess. I'm used to cooking with the stuff. Like three or four stars is enough for a solid cup or two of fivespice powder, and there it's up against szechuan and other strong flavors, and it's still the dominant smell.

Twenty is probably about right, I just used half of a one ounce package without doing much research (this was before becoming a HBTer). I happen to like the flavor of anise so I didn't really mind it when it was young, but it mellowed out a lot after months of aging. That porter is long gone now, and it was really good for stomach pains as anise is said to be

 

[Calichusetts]

I think I only used two stars in a 1 gallon experiemental I did and it also took 6+ months before I could drink it

 

[roastquake]

What style was it, Calichusetts? I'm wondering how different flavors of the base style (roasty, hoppy, caramel) play with the anise flavor. I don't think anyone has shared an experience with anise in an IPA or other hoppy beer, maybe anise plays better with hops that roasted malts.

 

[Epimetheus]

Next time I use anise or fennel I will boil them no more than 10 minutes. I used anise, fennel, and caraway, ground them all up, and boiled for 30 minutes. There was no flavor from any spice. YMMV.

The spices were from WholeFoods and were very fragrant so they were reasonable fresh. The fennel seeds were to large for the pepper grinder so I simply cracked them. The anise and caraway were small enough to get ground up.

 

[BigSumpin]

I still think toasted is the way to go...I toast fresh fennel seeds all the time for homemade pasta gravy and they taste awesome, brings out all the oils/fragrance.

Fresh sliced fennel bulbs are also killer for the (gravy).

 

[Calichusetts]

What style was it, Calichusetts? I'm wondering how different flavors of the base style (roasty, hoppy, caramel) play with the anise flavor. I don't think anyone has shared an experience with anise in an IPA or other hoppy beer, maybe anise plays better with hops that roasted malts.

It was a pilsner, so the anise really took over.

 

[ZenFitness]

Just brewed a DIPA yesterday with one star of anise, mostly Mosaic hops with a small blend of Calypso, Nelson Sauvin, and El Dorado hops as a complement.

The resulting wort smelled and tasted fantastic - the anise was added at 10 minutes, and there is a subtle hint of the flavor but the hops dominate (which is what I was shooting for).

I'll report back once it is done.