Amylase in secondary, no drop in gravity

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

00Seven

All-Terrain Brewing Company
Joined
May 8, 2018
Messages
112
Reaction score
31
Location
Victoria
W 34/70 got me down to 1.010 by Sunday on a light lager I'm trying. Moved to secondary, made sure to leave some yeast in the secondary, added 1T of amylase to secondary and 2 days later there is no change in gravity. I have the yeast I harvested from primary I can add in there, also have some other yeast I could add if need be. Goal was to get down to 1.000. There is a decent sized yeast cake on the bottom of carboy. Any ideas?
 
1.000 seems to me like an unlikely goal. That would mean that there is no sugars at all left in the beer. It would be like drinking alcohol with no taste whatsoever.

A light lager should end up in the neighborhood of 1.005 - 1.012.

What was your predicted FG?
 
using 'gluco' i get 1.000 everytime! you did use glucoamylase and not alpha? just to be clear?

and i usually add it with the first pitch of yeast, it takes time to work....
 
Question? Why do you want to force the gravity so low?

i'm not sure about the OP, but for me it's calories! it's hard to stay thin and drink! adding gluco i can get a 8%+ beer instead of 6%, for a couple less calories even!

Adding into the secondary you're not going to see any changes because it has to be added during mash in. The temperature required for the Amalyse Enzyme to work is I think 160f.

gluco is added to the fermenter and works at room-temp...your thinking about alpha-amylase....
 
Yes, thank you for the clarification

Your welcome, and they sell both, which is why i wanted to verify the OP got the right one to ferment dry.

I had to sort it out when i was making rice beer out of 20lb bags of white rice, alpha goes into the cooked rice to liquefy it, then i have to add gluco to the fermenter so i don't get the squirts from too many dextrins! check, check, 'double check' :)
 
Your welcome, and they sell both, which is why i wanted to verify the OP got the right one to ferment dry.

I had to sort it out when i was making rice beer out of 20lb bags of white rice, alpha goes into the cooked rice to liquefy it, then i have to add gluco to the fermenter so i don't get the squirts from too many dextrins! check, check, 'double check' :)
The stuff I bought just says amylase enzyme. I also have it sitting at 55 right now. Do I need to move it inside and bring it up?
 
How is the taste and body of the 1.000 beer lager/ale? That’s interesting.

is that at me? being that i actually make it? i use a lot of crystal and dark malt. so i don't notice the light body that much. as far as taste, if milwaukee's best was a 5 on 1-10 scale, i'd give it a 7...and i'm looking forward to using some smoked malt also, should add more 'low calorie' body to it, along with flavor!


and, i know, i know.... :off:
 
For the questions on why, I want to try to make a low cal/carb beer. Tried for an OG of 1.032 and an FG 1.000 for an abv of 4.2 with a dry crisp finish on a beer. Yes the flavor and body will be minimal but that’s what I’m shooting for. I keep one light beer on tap all the time and one craft beer on tap, keeps everyone happy. Plus it’s a cheap way to make yeast as it’s less than 18 in ingredients not counting water.
 
For the questions on why, I want to try to make a low cal/carb beer. Tried for an OG of 1.032 and an FG 1.000 for an abv of 4.2 with a dry crisp finish on a beer. Yes the flavor and body will be minimal but that’s what I’m shooting for. I keep one light beer on tap all the time and one craft beer on tap, keeps everyone happy. Plus it’s a cheap way to make yeast as it’s less than 18 in ingredients not counting water.

Your on the right track for it! maybe you'll be cool enough to post in the "Who's brewing brut IPA" thread soon! :mug:
 
Your on the right track for it! maybe you'll be cool enough to post in the "Who's brewing brut IPA" thread soon! :mug:
Awesome. Just ordered the 2oz just to get this brew done. 1tea spoon in secondary? Will the alpha amylase i added hurt anything? Keep at room temp or can I get back to 55?
 
Awesome. Just ordered the 2oz just to get this brew done. 1tea spoon in secondary? Will the alpha amylase i added hurt anything? Keep at room temp or can I get back to 55?

i can tell you, it will ferment dry with the gluco..one of the quality boys would have to chime in on infections and such....i would think as long as it's sealed and it just takes 3-4 days to get the gluco, another 3 days to finish to dry, your good....

not sure about the temp, i'd say 55f would be good for storage, all they say about gluco is room temp, but your using lager yeast so it should ferment dry at 55f?

i would guess your fine...keep the wort from air, add the gluco it will ferment dry..you'll have a 'lite' , or 'brüt' beer that will blow your pants off!
 
i can tell you, it will ferment dry with the gluco..one of the quality boys would have to chime in on infections and such....i would think as long as it's sealed and it just takes 3-4 days to get the gluco, another 3 days to finish to dry, your good....

not sure about the temp, i'd say 55f would be good for storage, all they say about gluco is room temp, but your using lager yeast so it should ferment dry at 55f?

i would guess your fine...keep the wort from air, add the gluco it will ferment dry..you'll have a 'lite' , or 'brüt' beer that will blow your pants off!

Plan is to get it to 1.000 then lager for another week or so. Hydro sample this morning was good. Miller lite but with flavor which is what I was going for
 
is that at me? being that i actually make it? i use a lot of crystal and dark malt. so i don't notice the light body that much. as far as taste, if milwaukee's best was a 5 on 1-10 scale, i'd give it a 7...and i'm looking forward to using some smoked malt also, should add more 'low calorie' body to it, along with flavor!


and, i know, i know.... :off:

Yes, thank you. No I’m not being critical, I may try this at some point. Would be interested in your recipe.
 
Plan is to get it to 1.000 then lager for another week or so. Hydro sample this morning was good. Miller lite but with flavor which is what I was going for

amen! lite beer with flavor, like i said your on your way to posting in "who's brewing a brut today"! and i think you'll find dark grain make up for the loss of dextrins...

Yes, thank you. No I’m not being critical, I may try this at some point. Would be interested in your recipe.

if you knew my posts you'd say i was being argumentative..my recipe, i have a tote full of base malt, i have a few smaller containers of roasted malt, each brew i just pull them out smell them and think how much of each!

(and then add gluco-amylase to the ferment, to get it dry)
 
Last edited:
amen! lite beer with flavor, like i said your on way to posting in "who's brewing a but today"! and i think you'll find dark grain make up for the loss of dextrins...



if you knew my posts you'd say i was being argumentative..my recipe, i have a tote full of base malt, i have a few smaller containers of roasted malt, each brew i just pull them out smell them and think how much of each!

(and then add gluco-amylase to the ferment, to get it dry)

Gotcha, what % base malt typically?
 
Tastes like Miller Lite at 1.010... That, IMO, is a negative. With flavor is a positive. What will it be like if you take it down to 1.000??

Never looked into low calorie beers. I prefer heavy thick beers anyway.

How many calories will those 10 points save?
 
Gotcha, what % base malt typically?

i usually use 20-21lb base malt and about 1-2 pounds crystal...for 10 gal batch, with gluco get a 8% beer...

Tastes like Miller Lite at 1.010... That, IMO, is a negative. With flavor is a positive. What will it be like if you take it down to 1.000??

Never looked into low calorie beers. I prefer heavy thick beers anyway.

How many calories will those 10 points save?

how many calories? about 1,000, in a day of 'day' drinking....which is significant...
 
3470 can go uo to 70. If you primaried at 55 then i wouldn’t worry about letting it go to room temp to add the gluco and speed the finish along. You could even add dry hops with the gluco, for yeast to take up any o2 that gets in the carboy.

Or stick with 55 if you really wanna play super safe. Just a question of how soon you want it to finish.
 
i usually use 20-21lb base malt and about 1-2 pounds crystal...for 10 gal batch, with gluco get a 8% beer...



how many calories? about 1,000, in a day of 'day' drinking....which is significant...
Was a bit of a fiasco getting the glucoamylase here. USPS apparently took the scenic route as it went my direction then 500 miles back the opposite direction. Anyways I finally got it and got it into the tank last Thursday evening. I'm now 7 days out and I'm at 1.002. I cranked the temperature down to lagering temps and let it ride another week and call it good and see how it goes.
 
Was a bit of a fiasco getting the glucoamylase here. USPS apparently took the scenic route as it went my direction then 500 miles back the opposite direction. Anyways I finally got it and got it into the tank last Thursday evening. I'm now 7 days out and I'm at 1.002. I cranked the temperature down to lagering temps and let it ride another week and call it good and see how it goes.

so it was the enzyme that was wrong? even at lagering temps i bet it will finish at 1.000, given another week...

and i know the story about the shipping, i've had things go from tucson, to pheonix and i live south of tucson! just ordered a separatory funnel from florida, went to CO, then phoenix....
 
Adding into the secondary you're not going to see any changes because it has to be added during mash in. The temperature required for the Amalyse Enzyme to work is I think 160f.

This is not entirely correct. Optimal activity requires that temp. You will still have activity at fermentation temps, just much (depending on the enzyme) slower.
 
For the questions on why, I want to try to make a low cal/carb beer. Tried for an OG of 1.032 and an FG 1.000 for an abv of 4.2 with a dry crisp finish on a beer. Yes the flavor and body will be minimal but that’s what I’m shooting for. I keep one light beer on tap all the time and one craft beer on tap, keeps everyone happy. Plus it’s a cheap way to make yeast as it’s less than 18 in ingredients not counting water.
I added some amylase300 to a 1035 lager (in the FV) and it went down to 1000. Really good beer, was surprised how much body it had and was in no way dry.
 
I added some amylase300 to a 1035 lager (in the FV) and it went down to 1000. Really good beer, was surprised how much body it had and was in no way dry.

i add gluco to all my beers and they have 'body' also. i'd assume, grain 'dry' is different than fruit 'dry'....
 
And since my last posts in this thread I have learned that there are two types of amylase...the type you add during the brew (which is what my comments were) and the type you add post brew (which I just learned about). So, all of my information was based on the wrong type of enzyme which was sold to me at the brew shop...perhaps they didn't have gluco, or perhaps he did not understand exactly what I was trying to accomplish. Either way, lesson learned.
 
And since my last posts in this thread I have learned that there are two types of amylase...the type you add during the brew (which is what my comments were) and the type you add post brew (which I just learned about). So, all of my information was based on the wrong type of enzyme which was sold to me at the brew shop...perhaps they didn't have gluco, or perhaps he did not understand exactly what I was trying to accomplish. Either way, lesson learned.

there's actually a lot more then two types...but just two typically sold, alpha and gluco. saliva has it's own amylase, koji mold has it's own amylase, barley malt has beta, alpha...

proteins (or chains of amino acids) are very diverse in nature

to find gluco usually distillers shops are better because when you do a cereal mash, you have to use it after alpha in the mash, otherwise you'll end up with a FG of like 1.050....and if you try drinking that you'll end up with a bad case of the runs, as i learned from my rice beer! :eek:
 
Last edited:
If your brewing a lager there is something called "pilsner enzyme" from bulldog. Its apparently different from the gluco but i cant find any info on it. No instructions on the packet, will have to phone them and ask. I really i would like it to stop around 1004 but i halved the dose last time (gluco) and got down to 998.
 
there's actually a lot more then two types...but just two typically sold, alpha and gluco. saliva has it's own amylase, koji mold has it's own amylase, barley malt has beta, alpha...

proteins (or chains of amino acids) are very diverse in nature

to find gluco usually distillers shops are better because when you do a cereal mash, you have to use it after alpha in the mash, otherwise you'll end up with a FG of like 1.050....and if you try drinking that you'll end up with a bad case of the runs, as i learned from my rice beer! :eek:

Totally understand, and thanks for the life lesson :)
 
Adding into the secondary you're not going to see any changes because it has to be added during mash in. The temperature required for the Amalyse Enzyme to work is I think 160f.
Not correct. Amylase enzymes will work at much lower temps. They just work slower. Remember the biological purpose of the amylase enzymes is to provide sugar to the growing sprout, by breaking down the starch stored in the seed. The biological process happens at ~room temp or a little cooler. Mash temps are a compromise to get gelatinization of the starch and then conversion before the amylase gets denatured, all in a reasonable amount of time.

Brew on :mug:
 
Not correct. Amylase enzymes will work at much lower temps. They just work slower. Remember the biological purpose of the amylase enzymes is to provide sugar to the growing sprout, by breaking down the starch stored in the seed. The biological process happens at ~room temp or a little cooler. Mash temps are a compromise to get gelatinization of the starch and then conversion before the amylase gets denatured, all in a reasonable amount of time.

Brew on :mug:

The alpha that I added to my secondary didn't change the gravity over the course of, if I am not mistaken, two months. I ultimately dumped the batch
 
The alpha that I added to my secondary didn't change the gravity over the course of, if I am not mistaken, two months. I ultimately dumped the batch
The reason for that is that your wort, and then beer when it stopped fermenting, had no dextrins larger than "Limit Dextrins." Alpha and beta amylase cannot chop the 1-4 (linear) bonds of the chains that are closer than about 4 glucose units from a branch point (formed by a 1-6 bond.) So, what is left after alpha and beta have done everything they can are branched dextrins with about 4 glucose units on each branch. Yeast cannot eat these. Amylase works in the fermenter if for some reason your wort contains dextrins larger than limit dextrins. In this case the amylase will continue chopping the bonds it can, creating more glucose and maltose for the yeast to eat. Once there are nothing but limit dextrins left, the amylase doesn't have anything to work on. So when your fermentation stopped you had no saccharides longer than limit dextrins, and the FG was determined by the limit dextrin concentration, and all the other soluble components (like protein, etc.) Adding alpha or beta amylase at that point will do nothing. Alpha amylase is normally recommended in the fermenter for beers that stall out above about 1.020.

Glucoamylase on the other hand will chop both the 1-4 and 1-6 bonds, reducing limit dextrins to glucose, which then gets eaten by the yeast. At the end of a fermentation with gluco, there is essentially no sugar of any type left in the beer.

Brew on :mug:
 
The reason for that is that your wort, and then beer when it stopped fermenting, had no dextrins larger than "Limit Dextrins." Alpha and beta amylase cannot chop the 1-4 (linear) bonds of the chains that are closer than about 4 glucose units from a branch point (formed by a 1-6 bond.) So, what is left after alpha and beta have done everything they can are branched dextrins with about 4 glucose units on each branch. Yeast cannot eat these. Amylase works in the fermenter if for some reason your wort contains dextrins larger than limit dextrins. In this case the amylase will continue chopping the bonds it can, creating more glucose and maltose for the yeast to eat. Once there are nothing but limit dextrins left, the amylase doesn't have anything to work on. So when your fermentation stopped you had no saccharides longer than limit dextrins, and the FG was determined by the limit dextrin concentration, and all the other soluble components (like protein, etc.) Adding alpha or beta amylase at that point will do nothing. Alpha amylase is normally recommended in the fermenter for beers that stall out above about 1.020.

Glucoamylase on the other hand will chop both the 1-4 and 1-6 bonds, reducing limit dextrins to glucose, which then gets eaten by the yeast. At the end of a fermentation with gluco, there is essentially no sugar of any type left in the beer.
Brew on :mug:

The gravity at the time of dumping was well in excess of 1.020; it was at 1.100. I am still under the impression it needed gluco and not alpha unless I am, again, misunderstanding the application?
 

Latest posts

Back
Top