Amy Winehouse dead

[onthekeg]

I'm assuming you don't know anyone who has committed suicide

FWIW I had a best friend kill himself over a girl the first year out of high school. I also had a close neighbor kill himself in the 70's when the ag industry was going down the tubes. Then I had a close cousin kill himself because his wife was cheating on him 2 years ago.

I know suicide. Its cowardly, hurts those closest to them, and isn't an answer for any problem. Any other nuggets of wisdom I should "learn" about?

 

[dwarven_stout]

And I'll save my real grief for people I actually care about, not screwed up celebrities with whom I have no connection.

+1

She was dead a long time ago. No sense in getting all worked up about it now.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

This thread is tragic.

There is an estimated almost 7 BILLION people on the rock in space. And I am supposed to feel sorry, even grieve, for 1 junky that just so happened to be sober long enough to grace the airwaves with her voice?

Sorry. Not going to happen.

Had she not had Music going for her very few would care or even know. Saddest part of all this is that her mechanism for fame is likely what fed her addiction. Fact is, she's lucky to have survived to see 27.

 

[dwarven_stout]

As my grizzled old platoon sergeant once described Kurt Cobain:

"Just one more dead junkie".

 

[Germelli1]

Q: Why did Amy Winehouse snort artificial sweetener?
A: She thought it was diet coke

Q: What's the difference between February and Amy Winehouse?
A: February makes it to 28!


Too soon?

 

[EoinMag]

As my grizzled old platoon sergeant once described Kurt Cobain:

"Just one more dead junkie".

Or even someones son or daughter, that platoon sergeant must have been a real *******.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Or even someones son or daughter, that platoon sergeant must have been a real *******.

He may or may not have been an *******, but you cannot fault his statement for accuracy.

 

[Airborneguy]

Blanket sympathy has never been one of my strong points...

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

OK, just for the record, just how much should we be supposed to "Grieve" for these people like Kurt Cobain and Amy WInehouse, who took the money from the kids, and gave them a lesson in how excessive drug taking makes you cool and famous? What about the stupid impressionable junkie kids they may have left in their wake? Some of those will die some day too, with nobody to mourn for them.

Having said all that, I don't believe that these "Stars" should be held responsible for these idiots, but let's face it, a star's fame DOES have influence on those weak, impressionable twots.

 

[dwarven_stout]

Or even someones son or daughter, that platoon sergeant must have been a real *******.

That PSG is someone who has seen far too many dead.

Some of them died putting their lives on the line for other people. You don't have to see much of that before you lose sympathy for people who destroy their own lives.

 

[Boleslaus]

FWIW I had a best friend kill himself over a girl the first year out of high school. I also had a close neighbor kill himself in the 70's when the ag industry was going down the tubes. Then I had a close cousin kill himself because his wife was cheating on him 2 years ago.

I know suicide. Its cowardly, hurts those closest to them, and isn't an answer for any problem. Any other nuggets of wisdom I should "learn" about?

I agree that it is selfish and causes pain for their friends and family. One of my best friends killed himself freshman year of college. That doesn't make it not sad or easier to deal with because you can blame them alone...that's what you mentioned in your first post. You made it sound like, "oh well I tried, you're a dumbshvt for killing yourself". I don't see how you can look at a suicide like that if you care for the person.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Suicide is selfish? Not as selfish as calling someone who committed suicide selfish because it upset THEM!

Edit: Oh yes, for full disclosure, my grandfather topped himself. It was probably the best way out for him, and easier in the long run for his family.

 

[Germelli1]

Suicide is selfish? Not as selfish as calling someone who committed suicide selfish because it upset THEM!

My head hurts now

 

[Clann]

Suicide is selfish? Not as selfish as calling someone who committed suicide selfish because it upset THEM!

Edit: Oh yes, for full disclosure, my grandfather topped himself. It was probably the best way out for him, and easier in the long run for his family.

Lets just all go have a beer and chill. mabye I've had a couple too many.
Again, sorry for anyone who has had to deal with suicide or death.

Lets go back to the miniskirt thread.

 

[Mermaid]

There's this little song she did on her first album "F' me pumps" (you can look it up on youtube). She's rocking an adorable figure, not covered in tats, and singing like a kid who seemed to be destined for stardom.

I think it's pretty sad what happened to her. Yeah, she was a trainwreck and really good fodder for the tabloids but there are PLENTY of trainwrecks who have defied the odds and are still alive for some strange reason.

Andy Dick

Charlie Sheen

Courtney Love (I swear that woman really IS a vampire - there is no good reason she should still be living given the **** she has done to her liver)... speaking of liver..

David Crosby and his 2 livers (Love the musician, but the dude was a train wreck too at one point in his life)

Tommy Lee

and of course, Keith Richards

R.I.P. Ms. Winehouse. You really did live, and die by your own rules.

 

[Airborneguy]

Again, sorry for anyone who has had to deal with suicide or death.

This is a perfect thread to highlight the intricacies of Internet interactions.

In person, we'd know where we each were coming from, but on here it's just a bunch of guys (and a few gals) trying to figure each other out.

By virtue of my employment, I've seen more dead bodies than I'd like to admit. If I had to take a guess, close to 200. Two of those people died in front of me, one looking me right in the eye. None of it ever bothered me. Hell, a few even seemed interesting. But then I made a decision and a guy died because of it, and soon after I saw a 17 year old girl shot and killed for something another person did. Two years later a guy I worked with killed himself because he hit a parked car when driving drunk.

I've learned that death sucks a$s and if you still have breath in your lungs you should really not do anything that might help it find you. If you do, well, you won't get sympathy from me.

We all face crappy things differently. I've seen the smallest dude on the block walk into a gunfight and the biggest dude hide behind a girl in a little fight. Everyone reacts differently, and unfortunately, that doesn't translate well over the Internet.

 

[Pappers_]

This is a perfect thread to highlight the intricacies of Internet interactions.

In person, we'd know where we each were coming from, but on here it's just a bunch of guys (and a few gals) trying to figure each other out.

By virtue of my employment, I've seen more dead bodies than I'd like to admit. If I had to take a guess, close to 200. Two of those people died in front of me, one looking me right in the eye. None of it ever bothered me. Hell, a few even seemed interesting. But then I made a decision and a guy died because of it, and soon after I saw a 17 year old girl shot and killed for something another person did. Two years later a guy I worked with killed himself because he hit a parked car when driving drunk.

I've learned that death sucks a$s and if you still have breath in your lungs you should really not do anything that might help it find you. If you do, well, you won't get sympathy from me.

We all face crappy things differently. I've seen the smallest dude on the block walk into a gunfight and the biggest dude hide behind a girl in a little fight. Everyone reacts differently, and unfortunately, that doesn't translate well over the Internet.

I just thumbs upped this post. Not for the deaths or your reaction to them, but because its a great example of civility and cordiality on HBT.

 

[Airborneguy]

I hate to bring up another thread - wink wink - but in all honesty, the problem is not this forum, the mods, or anything else. It's inherent to the Internet. If you can't look a man in the eye you'll never never know his true feelings, period. So therefore, unless one of the involved parties commits to ignoring the oft-encountered miscommunication, there will almost always be an argument.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

I'm outa here on account of that there are some things I want to say that simply won't be taken well. It's just not worth upsetting people over.

 

[emjay]

The oft-spouted idea that suicide is somehow, by definition, cowardly (or always merely "taking the easy way out"), is beyond absurd.

 

[Homercidal]

The oft-spouted idea that suicide is somehow, by definition, cowardly (or always merely "taking the easy way out"), is beyond absurd.

I don't think so. Generally, except in the case where people kill themselves for ulterior motives, people commit suicide to end some kind of pain or a difficulty in life that they can't (or don't think they can) handle.

Therefore, in general, people kill themselves because it's easier than any way they know to deal with their problem. So to them it kind of IS taking the easier way out.

It's sad that so many, choose to do this rather than simply asking someone to help them.

I knew a few people who killed themselves. Here is one story: A friend, the close friend of my sister's husband, and husband of her close friend, shot himself in his truck, in a field of young pine trees. They had 1 young child and 1 on the way. His note basically said that he didn't want to run his father's Christmas Tree business, and he didn't want to disappoint him. I think there may be more than that added in, but to him that was the big thing.

Now I couldn't give a rat's ass about Amy Winehouse. I don't know her. But Brian was a good man with a bright future and a loving family. Nobody saw this coming. It REALLY hurts to know after it's too late that you could have saved his life if he'd only said something to someone about his problem.

THAT is someone that concerns me, not some celebrity I've never met. I'm sure she has friends and family that are hurting, just like I hurt for my friend and his family. His kids are growing up not knowing their father and what a wonderful person he was.

I don't think most people on here think suicide isn't a terrible thing. I think it just depends on who the person is, the circumstances, and whether or not they knew that person.

 

[Pappers_]

I'm outa here on account of that there are some things I want to say that simply won't be taken well . . .

That's a high standard, Gnomey. Very little of what I post is taken well, or even makes sense

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

That's a high standard, Gnomey. Very little of what I post is taken well, or even makes sense

Standards! Hey! Stop accusing me of having standards!

 

[emjay]

Therefore, in general, people kill themselves because it's easier than any way they know to deal with their problem. So to them it kind of IS taking the easier way out.

First of all, you're applying rational thinking to irrational people struggling with irrational thoughts. And I don't just mean this in the sense of acute suicidality... depression, anxiety disorders, etc, are inherently irrational. And in such cases, there ARE NO "easy" options.

I mean, my grandfather committed suicide, and apparently according to a lot of people here, that should somehow make me an expert. Nope... it really doesn't help you understand any better than anybody else.

You know what DOES help me understand? Not even the fact that I'm close to completing a degree in neuroscience with a strong background in psychology.

It's the fact that it's something I struggled with seriously myself, for quite a long period of time.

You mention it being sad that many people don't ask some for help. Even when they do, it can sometimes make things worse, not better, especially when they refuse to get professional help - sometimes even because the people they went to disapprove of that kind of thing and TALK THEM OUT OF IT. Uneducated family and friends are all-too-often ignorant of the fact that they can be supportive, but they really can't *understand*. But people tend to think they can, often equating it to their own NORMAL experience of a fleeting period of anxiety, a bad breakup, etc. And then because they think they can understand, applying rational thought processes to an irrational problem as you have, they often place unrealistic expectations on the person, sometimes becoming frustrated or even angry when their well-meaning but naive efforts don't seem to help the person simply "snap out of it."

But you can't really blame anybody for not being able to understand anymore than you can blame a blind person for not being able to comprehend what red is. Or, for the sake of making probably the closest comparison that can be made... trying to understand it is as useless as trying to understand what a psychedelic such as mushrooms or LSD does to the mind without having actually experienced them.

I don't want my post to go on too long, so I'll just point out one last thing. The reasoning you used in the quote above could literally be applied to ANY rationally-made decision a person makes.

 

[mikeysab]

When I hear a story like this my thoughts wind up on the family. As a father, watching my daughters stub their toe or fall down and scrape their knee breaks my heart. I would never want to outlive my children and can't imagine how that must hurt someone. True she was a mess and no one here knew her personally so its easier to say that she's a piece of crap junkie. I doubt anyone here would walk up to her grieving family and let them know that you felt she was just another dead junkie. If you did then you'd be just another unsympathetic, heartless ******. I'm saying that not because its untrue that she IS just another dead junkie but for what her family is going through. Too many people think the world revolves around them and have no consideration for others, junkies and murderers included. The ones who hurt others usually get what's coming to them and its hard to show sympathy when they do.

 

[Homercidal]

Her family claims she had quit drinking and that she likely died from withdrawals. Looking that up online shows mentions that 1-5% of people who get medical treatment to stop alcohol abuse can die from withdrawal, while that number could be as high as 20% for those who don't.

Supposedly her doctor recommended cutting back on drinking while not binge drinking to get her body used to living without the alcohol, but she said she couldn't manage to do that. So she just stopped drinking.

We'll have to wait for the toxicologist to know for sure.

 

[EoinMag]

I heard reports over here of cocaine, ecstasy and ketamine being bought the night before she died. But as said toxicology will tell, but I'm thinking they've found all three and are unsure which was fatally toxic which is why it is unexplained thus far.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

I heard reports over here of cocaine, ecstasy and ketamine being bought the night before she died. But as said toxicology will tell, but I'm thinking they've found all three and are unsure which was fatally toxic which is why it is unexplained thus far.

Toxicology reports generally take around 4 weeks here for the results as well, as far as I know. Even when the inside of the body is not like a well stocked pharmacy.

 

[user 574]

Trying not to perpetuate the suicide is cowardly chatter but every instance of suicide has it's own tale and often times it involves mental illness and you can't generalize it. Lost a friend and have actually saved another person twice. Depression is a horrible thing.

Anyone think Seppuku (or Hara Kiri) was cowardly? I'd be the coward because I got no convictions that strong .

 

[Airborneguy]

Hideki Irabu sure didn't think Hari Kari was cowardly...