American light lager

[Mr.Wyatt]

Does anyone have a solid recipe for an American light lager? im trying to duplicate busch and miller high life ( i love busch great fishing beer and the wife loves high life)

 

[Steveruch]

Extract or all-grain?

 

[Mr.Wyatt]

Extract or all-grain?

all-grain

 

[Dland]

Well,, if you want something lightish, simple, and better than the brands you listed, maybe try 100% pilsner malt, mash in no higher than 150F, about 30 IBU worth of you favorite hops.

If you want to lighten it more, and want it neutral, try up to 20% flaked rice. If you want the American corn flavor, you could use up to 20% flaked corn, or combo of two. I'm more partial to rye malt as an adjunct, but it would head away from the flavor you say you're trying to achieve..

Also keep in mind, the type of beers you mentioned are probably lagers, at least in style. Those beers are filtered, to achive that on homebrew scale, w better quality, the beer should "lager", that is rest cold(like 30F) for a few weeks at least, after kegging/bottling.

If you want bush or miller, your best bet may be just to buy it. If you do put in the effort to make it well, don't be disapointed if your brew tastes better than what you can buy. But there is a leaning curve.

 

[Steveruch]

I've never brewed one, but I'd go with 80-90% pilsner malt and 10-20% flaked rice or corn with 18-20 IBUs of vanguard and fermented with W34/70.

 

[Dland]

Your right 18-20 IBUs would be closer to style. 34/70 very good yeast, and "forgiving" temp wise, very good choice for first lager.

 

[Mr.Wyatt]

I've never brewed one, but I'd go with 80-90% pilsner malt and 10-20% flaked rice or corn with 18-20 IBUs of vanguard and fermented with W34/70.

this is my build so far thinking about taking the 30 min boil out and just let it go for 60 with Hallertau.

 

[bwible]

this is my build so far thinking about taking the 30 min boil out and just let it go for 60 with Hallertau.

You always want to do a 90 min boil when you have a large amount of pilsener malt.

 

[Mr.Wyatt]

You always want to do a 90 min boil when you have a large amount of pilsener malt.

Thanks for that advice. How long should I sparge?

 

[bwible]

Thanks for that advice. How long should I sparge?

I’m old school - I still do a 60 min mash. I do batch sparge. Which means I just pour the sparge water in after draining the first runnings, let it sit for a few min, then continue running off.

 

[BeerFst]

You always want to do a 90 min boil when you have a large amount of pilsener malt.

for under modified malts (floor malted, etc) yes, but DMS shouldnt be a problem with our modern malts. 90 minutes may provide other benefits, but the 90 minute "rule" doesn't really need to apply. I've done 30 minute boils with pils without any issue

 

[Mr.Wyatt]

I've made other beers using a similar build heavy on the pilsner and did a 60 min boil. I still managed to hit my target og or at least close to it. But any advice I will take

 

[Vale71]

for under modified malts (floor malted, etc) yes, but DMS shouldnt be a problem with our modern malts. 90 minutes may provide other benefits, but the 90 minute "rule" doesn't really need to apply. I've done 30 minute boils with pils without any issue

Modification has nothing to do with DMS. The only determinng factor for DMS-P levels are DMS-P levels in unmalted grain (raw material) and kilning temperature. Also there are no undermodified malts on the market today. Floor malted simply means it's turned by hand (=higher cost) instead of mechanically. Agree that 90 minutes is excessive unles you're not really boiling due to lack of performance of your system. It would also make obtaining the light color typical of American light lager more difficult.

 

[BeerFst]

Modification has nothing to do with DMS. The only determinng factor for DMS-P levels are DMS-P levels in unmalted grain (raw material) and kilning temperature. Also there are no undermodified malts on the market today. Floor malted simply means it's turned by hand (=higher cost) instead of mechanically. Agree that 90 minutes is excessive unles you're not really boiling due to lack of performance of your system. It would also make obtaining the light color typical of American light lager more difficult.

I didn't know that, all good info, thank you

 

[Mutant]

2.76g water; makes only 2.15g. German pilsner 2.26 lb; flaked rice 0.18 lb; carafoam 0.25 lb; German vienna 0.33 lb. Dough in 102F for 20min; protein rest 122F for 20; mash 152F for 30; mash 154F for 60; 175F for 15; boil 90 min (total) w/ Czech Saaz 0.18oz AA2.8 and Crystal 0.1oz AA3.8 45 min, Czech Saaz 0.18oz AA2.8 and Crystal 0.1oz AA3.8 10 min, Citra 0.05oz AA14.2 5min. WLP840 @52F ramp up to clean up at end. Water chemistry Goal: Ca 67.7; Mg 2.0; Na 19.9; Cl 85.5; SO4 61.5; CaCO3 12.7; RA CaCO3 (SO4/CL ratio: 0.7 malty) - this routinely gets 40+ in competitions (Silver at State Fair). OG 1.038 FG 1.009 IBU 10 SRM 2 ABV 3.9%.

 

[McKnuckle]

Modification has nothing to do with DMS. The only determinng factor for DMS-P levels are DMS-P levels in unmalted grain (raw material) and kilning temperature.

Article by Greg Noonan:
Understanding Malt Analysis Sheets

"DMS precursor (DMS-P): This value represents the levels of S-methyl methionine (SMM) and dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) in the malt. These compounds will convert to dimethyl sulfide (DMS) when the wort is heated. The DMS-P should be 5-15 ppm for lager malts, less for ales. The more fully modified the malt, the lower the DMS-P levels should be."

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Why waste time brewing a Busch or Miller?

Instead consider a brewing a CAP (Classic American Pilsner). Even a SMaSH CAP is better than Busch or Miller.

 

[Mr.Wyatt]

Why waste time brewing a Busch or Miller?

Instead consider a brewing a CAP (Classic American Pilsner). Even a SMaSH CAP is better than Busch or Miller.

These are 2 beers that we usually keep around for anytime drinking. Don't get me wrong I have a fridge of the good **** but I kinda wanna challenge myself with this one. I have made many ales a few sours this is a new adventure for me. Next will be a barleywine.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

IMO (at least I hope), you will enjoy the flavor, taste and experience of doing a true all malt brew than Busch or Miller.

BYO magazine, years ago, had a recipe for Schlitz beer ("When you're out of Bud, tough Schlitz").

Want me to locate the recipe?

 

[dbsmith]

Here's a basic starting point using 6 row instead of pilsner malt:

5 gallons:

7.0 lbs 6-row
1.5 lbs flaked rice
0.5 lbs Crystal-10
1.0 lbs rice hulls

1.00 oz Low AA (~4%) noble hop 60 minutes
0.25 oz Low AA (~4%) noble hop 10 minutes

Lager yeast

Tweak to taste

 

[Mr.Wyatt]

IMO (at least I hope), you will enjoy the flavor, taste and experience of doing a true all malt brew than Busch or Miller.

BYO magazine, years ago, had a recipe for Schlitz beer ("When you're out of Bud, tough Schlitz").

Want me to locate the recipe?

Sure

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

BYO "250 Classic Clone Recipes" Schlitz mid 1970's clone.

41.2% 2 row pale
27.7% 6 row pale
30.2% flaked maize

1.75 AAU Cluster hops - 60 minutes
1.75 AAU US Fuggles hops - 60 minutes

Wyeast 2035 (American Lager) -- make a starter. Actually, any US lager yeast will probably work.

BYO recipes in this book are based on 65% efficiency, so scale accordingly.

Step mash, using 3.5 gallons of water, at 145F for 15 minutes. Rise to 154F for 30 minutes. Mash out at 167F for 10 minutes. Or replace the 6 row with 2 row and mash at 154F for 60 minutes.

Collect 5 gallons of wort and the amount of top of water to account for system evaporation during 90 minute boil.

Cool and ferment at 55F.

Carbonate at 2.6 levels of CO2.

 

[bracconiere]

i could throw in, but i've never done it....could try malting popcorn instead of flaked corn. i'm not sure but everytime i've tried brewing with corn, it tastes like vegetables, not miller. but i've never tried malting it first.

and you're not alone i like highlife too!

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

i could throw in, but i've never done it....could try malting popcorn instead of flaked corn. i'm not sure but everytime i've tried brewing with corn, it tastes like vegetables, not miller. but i've never tried malting it first.

and you're not alone i like highlife too!

Vegetables = DMS. In another post I believe you mentioned your kettle is covered during the boil. Is this correct?

 

[bracconiere]

Vegetables = DMS. In another post I believe you mentioned your kettle is covered during the boil. Is this correct?

no that is not correct, but i do remember posting in a thread a few months back, that someone else said they boil with the lid on.

i was just saying when i've brewed with corn, it tasted like corn on the cob, not miller...

just in case @Mr.Wyatt notices something similar, i've since learned how to malt since last time i brewed with corn, and would be curious as to how that effects the taste....

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

no that is not correct, but i do remember posting a thread in a few months back that someone else said they boil with the lid on.

i was just saying when i've brewed with corn, it tasted like corn on the cob, not miller...

Yes, must let the DMS boil off. No brew cover at all! Also, whenever, I use Pils malt I boil for 90 minutes to mitigate any possible DMS.

Too bad we are not closer to each other. I'd have you sample a cream ale, made with some flaked maize, and you'd not taste the DMS.

Dimethyl Sulfide (DMS)
Tastes/Smells Like: Cooked vegetables, especially creamed corn, cabbage, tomato, shellfish/oyster-like flavors
Possible Causes: S-methyl methionine (SMM) is created during the malting process of grain and is later converted to DMS when heated. Darker base grains have less DMS as the kilning
process converts SMM to DMS and drives it off before going into the wort. This makes DMS naturally more prevalent in pale ales and lagers.

How to Avoid: When boiling wort, DMS is driven off through evaporation. It is very important to always maintain a strong rolling boil for at least one hour. Some brewers boil for 90 minutes to ensure that as much DMS is driven off as possible. Avoid letting condensation drip back into the wort and never cover your kettle completely during the boil. Long cooling times can also lead to excess amounts of DMS. Cool your wort to pitching temperature as quickly as possible with a wort chiller or ice bath. Finally, a strong fermentation with lots of Co2 production helps to clean up DMS since the bubbles carry DMS away, so pitching high quality yeast is a must.

 

[bracconiere]

i think that was a case of:

Ill Communication


i've never brewed with flaked corn. so maybe the wetting and flaking, then redrying would be like malting and kilning?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I believe the "kilning" in the DMS description applies to the maltster.

"I've never brewed with flaked corn"? Then, why write " i was just saying when i've brewed with corn, it tasted like corn on the cob, not miller... " Doesn't matter the type of corn (making this simple. Not getting into pre-gelanizized, etc) Corn is corn.

 

[bracconiere]

because it did?

 

[bracconiere]

and sweet corn, and dent corn, as far as i know, are different.....i think popcorn is different too?

edit: was looking to see what they use for flaked brewing corn saw this, imagine this for a miller clone!