Alternatives to marbles and purging

[sjlyons81]

My homebrew shop recommended I use marbles to decrease the amount of headspace in my secondary. I thought it was a good idea but I'm concerned with what type of marbles to use. I don't know, the ones at the dollar store from china that "may contain a water soluble coating" raised suspicion. Does anyone know which type of marbles to use, or alternative. I don't have co2 capabilities. Thanks.

 

[schokie]

I've never heard of that technique, but I guess it could work.

My advice is to avoid the whole problem by skipping the secondary. It's not needed most of the time.

What are you brewing?

 

[adamdillabo]

You could add a bit of sugar or dme dissolved in water to purge.

 

[IslandLizard]

Why use a secondary at all? Leave the beer on yeast in the primary until done. Cold crash, rack, and package, done!

Less chance of infection and oxidation, plus it allows the yeast to clean up nicely at a bit higher temps.

 

[sjlyons81]

Should have specified. I'm lagering.

 

[sjlyons81]

Also need the bucket to do another brew.

 

[JonM]

I genuinely don't want to sound like a wise-ass, but the best solutions are either get a smaller secondary or brew batches that are big enough to fill your current secondary to the tip-top.

 

[IslandLizard]

Should have specified. I'm lagering.

Is it done? Did you do a Diacetyl rest?

You can lager on the yeast for a few weeks (4-8).
As soon as you lift the lid your headspace CO2 is gone, and open to oxidation (and infection). So keep the lid on until ready to package.

Buy another bucket for your next brew.

IF you want to rack to secondary, that vessel should be filled close to the top (2" in a carboy). Usually a 5 gallon one will fit the volume.

If you need to fill the headspace, use simple marbles, not the fancy, iridescent ones.

 

[naturebrew]

I primary in glass 23 litre carboys and when I need to secondary, handy when clearing a brew that has been racked onto fruit, I use 19 litre glass carboys. This way, I have enough headspace in the primary to allow for a bit of extra beer which reduces the headspace when I secondary.

 

[PitRow]

As soon as you lift the lid your headspace CO2 is gone, and open to oxidation (and infection).

Given that CO2 is heavier than the oxygen in the air (CO2 has an extra carbon atom that O2 does not), would this actually be true? Yes, I suppose if you rip the lid off quickly you'll create turbulence that would stir up the CO2 in the headspace and potentially mix some O2 in with it, but if you're careful I see no reason that the CO2 wouldn't just sit there in the bucket and be fine.

Seriously, I'm new at this and trying to figure it out, but that seems counter-intuitive to me.

 

[adamdillabo]

I was thinking of doing a Pilsner at maybe 2.25 gallons. Could I put it in separate one gallon jugs then combine in bottling bucket after lagering in the fridge?

 

[IslandLizard]

Given that CO2 is heavier than the oxygen in the air (CO2 has an extra carbon atom that O2 does not), would this actually be true? Yes, I suppose if you rip the lid off quickly you'll create turbulence that would stir up the CO2 in the headspace and potentially mix some O2 in with it, but if you're careful I see no reason that the CO2 wouldn't just sit there in the bucket and be fine.

Seriously, I'm new at this and trying to figure it out, but that seems counter-intuitive to me.

Yeah, great if it were true. The CO2 "blanket" is no more than a myth. It does not form a seal. Gasses mix freely, particularly when there are ambient drafts and currents. Even the slightest movement of air or a puff will disturb the balance. CO2 is not all that much heavier than air anyway.

In a carboy with its narrow neck the mixing takes longer, so yes there is some protection, only limited amounts of air can exchange per time interval. But take a sample out with a wine thief and that volume removed gets replaced with air and create turbulence...

In the labs they use Argon as an inert blanket, mainly to prevent oxygen exposure, but only in closed vessels. Even in a bucket Ar will mix in no time. Ask a welder.

 

[PitRow]

ya learn something new every day. Thanks!

 

[IslandLizard]

I was thinking of doing a Pilsner at maybe 2.25 gallons. Could I put it in separate one gallon jugs then combine in bottling bucket after lagering in the fridge?

Absolutely!

For the OP, you could submerge those marbles by putting them in a small lidded vessel (takeout container) or even a plastic (Ziplock) bag if you're afraid of the marbles' surface dissolving.

Good sanitation practices should be followed as always.

 

[kh54s10]

The best thing would be to get a proper size vessel for your secondary. A bucket is a poor choice. I have 6 gallon Better Bottles for primary and a 5 gallon one for secondary when I lager. My last lager I just left it in primary for the full lagering profile. It came out perfect.

 

[IslandLizard]

The best thing would be to get a proper size vessel for your secondary. A bucket is a poor choice. I have 6 gallon Better Bottles for primary and a 5 gallon one for secondary when I lager. My last lager I just left it in primary for the full lagering profile. It came out perfect.

+1^ Let it be!

Wide open surfaces like buckets are indeed useless for secondaries, unless you can fill them to the rim with a good gasket seal in the lid.

I'd use kegs (purged with CO2) as secondaries if I wanted to go that route. But the OP doesn't have that luxury (yet).

 

[Yooper]

Also need the bucket to do another brew.

If you are going to do a secondary, the beer has to be moved to a carboy, and not a bucket. I assume your secondary is a 5 gallon carboy? if so, it should be ok just rack very carefully. If it's bigger than that, just bottle after the diacetyl rest, let the beer carb up at room temperature and then lager in the bottle.

 

[sjlyons81]

Absolutely!

For the OP, you could submerge those marbles by putting them in a small lidded vessel (takeout container) or even a plastic (Ziplock) bag if you're afraid of the marbles' surface dissolving.

Good sanitation practices should be followed as always.

Finally, great f'n idea. Thanks.