Alternative to PBW for cleaning SS fermenters

[matt_m]

I really like this pump for a few bucks more. It fits a 5 gallon bucket nicely for a keg washer and is quite powerful. It doesn't take much depth to prime so 2 gallons is plenty to clean several pre-rinsed kegs. I'm not sure of the max temp but I mix my cleaning water with 140F tap water and haven't had an issue. I built a PVC contraption that screws onto the top of the pump. It has arms to support the keg, lines to the gas and liquid ports to clean those (and they work really well!) and a spray ball at the top.

 

[Birrofilo]

Hot water, very hot water, boiling hot water will dissolve anything and their dog.

A SS fermenter can be cleaned with hot water and a bit of soap. It can then be rinsed with hot water. I have never found anything inside a kettle or a fermenter that cannot be cleaned with hot water and a little bit of soap. PBW is for cleaning the pump without disassembling it. And even that, only once in a while. My normal way to clean the pump is hot water and a little of soap.

You never need to fill the fermenter or the kettle with water. A soft sponge with hot water will take away everything. If you have scorched caramel on the bottom of your kettle (which is the most difficult thing to take away), vinegar will also help a lot. Let the vinegar sit on the scorched caramel, scrub a little bit to allow the vinegar to penetrate the mass. It will go away in a few minutes.

The advantage of a SS fermenter is that it can be cleaned with hot water.

 

[rushpapers]

Hot water, very hot water, boiling hot water will dissolve anything and their dog.

When that doesn't work, go to the toolbox...

 

[eric19312]

I really like this pump for a few bucks more. It fits a 5 gallon bucket nicely for a keg washer and is quite powerful. It doesn't take much depth to prime so 2 gallons is plenty to clean several pre-rinsed kegs. I'm not sure of the max temp but I mix my cleaning water with 140F tap water and haven't had an issue. I built a PVC contraption that screws onto the top of the pump. It has arms to support the keg, lines to the gas and liquid ports to clean those (and they work really well!) and a spray ball at the top.

Hey matt that pump specs says it is rated for maximum working temp of 120. I also use a sump pump rated at 120 and pump CIP solution up to 140 with it but really wish I could go to 160. I also saw this on the warnings
This pump is not designed to handle salt water, brine, laundry discharge, or any other application which may contain caustic chemicals, highly chlorinated water, and/or foreign material.

I'd think PBW and other cleaners would fall in the laundry discharge category.

 

[matt_m]

But its been working for 3 years and a whole lot of keg washings.

 

[DuncB]

What is that tool?
I can't believe that the water stays hot for long being sprayed into cold kegs and vessels or do you heat it somehow?
Must be ambient by the time you've done 5 kegs or so.
Just goes to show how well it works even cool.

 

[eric19312]

Not sure who that question was directed to but yes I use an immersion heater to keep my PBW solution hot whether I am cleaning a bunch of kegs with my Mark II or running a CIP ball in my fermentor with my sump pump. I wish these cheap pumps could handle hotter but PBW at 130-135 works fairly well.

 

[matt_m]

I'm using homemade PBW (the older oxyclean/TSP90/7th Generation recipe.). After 4-6 kegs its still quite warm but not hot. I pre-rinse all my kegs sometime between pulling them out of the kegerator and the day I wash a pile of them so yes they are room temp, but also I'm not really trying to remove crud either by the time they see the washer.

 

[lauran910]

Hey all, just looking for an alternative to PBW for cleaning SS fermenters. I have 5 Anvil bucket fermenters, and find PBW kind of a pain. Plus it’s not great for my septic system. I would prefer to scrub with a cleaner and soft brush, rinse, and be done. Always StarSan right before use.
I read the unscented dish soap can lead to head retention issues, and BKF is probably too abrasive for use everyime, so looking for a good cleaner that rinses well. Also have well water with a softener so some cleaners may not be as good with that.

I was about to post about a cheap alternative I found for pbw and is septic safe. Seventh generation dishwasher detergent powder free and clear. Used it for a couple batches. Doesn’t foam so I can use it in my Mark’s keg washer. I use it to soak and clean bottles too. It’s maybe 3$ for 3 lb and works just as well as pbw. It’s also easy to find at most grocery and big box stores.

 

[NSMikeD]

View attachment 725377

I was about to post about a cheap alternative I found for pbw and is septic safe. Seventh generation dishwasher detergent powder free and clear. Used it for a couple batches. Doesn’t foam so I can use it in my Mark’s keg washer. I use it to soak and clean bottles too. It’s maybe 3$ for 3 lb and works just as well as pbw. It’s also easy to find at most grocery and big box stores.

I just did a post in @lauran910 thread on this. They remove the laurel sulfate which is the foaming agent in most soaps, detergents and shampoos. While sodium carbonate will also disinfect (which IMO also makes it a good sanitizer) and a cleaning agent, this looks effective. Make sure it’s the free and clear. The other 7th generation uses the foaming agents

oxy will get in deep and the O2 will break down organic and cell walls making it an effective cleaner, I use a lot less these days with a good rinse with hot waters and scrubbing away pouring oxy solution all about and nit entirely filling the vessel. I brew smaller batches so I can pick up shake.

i put about a half gallon aside to soak lines, connections, airlocks etc. I cut my use to about 1tbl of powder.

Oxy has that second benefit of killing bacteria in advance of a Star San.

 

[MoreBeerDude]

Curious about temperature. Especially with these DIY products. Sure I get it that higher temps make it work better / faster. However will they work equally well at room temp for longer times? Like overnight soaks?
For me, given my setup, being able to do this at room temp and with longer soaks would be sooo much easier. Thoughts?

 

[lawngnomehitman]

Usually the 3 levers are temp, time, and mechanical action. Cooler for longer is the same as hotter for shorter, etc. I don't know if all of these 'retain their formula' over time, or of they oxidize into something else, but generally speaking, "probably ok to do it overnight at a lower temp"

 

[DuncB]

But do rinse it out with warmer water than your final temp to get rid of the haze that sometimes occurs. Then Starsan.

 

[lawngnomehitman]

Absolutely, always rinse

 

[Brewdog80]

White magic eraser. Zero reason fill fermenter with 7 gallons of hot water unless you are just lazy. It still takes some scrubbing even with a sponge. Make up a gallon and use some elbow grease.

 

[RufusBrewer]

I know people that sing the praised of Craft Meister Alkaline Brewery Wash.They claim it is superior to PBW. One of it's advantage s it works with cold water.

I will let you decide if the product is over priced or not.

 

[lawngnomehitman]

Zero reason fill fermenter with 7 gallons of hot water unless you are just lazy

You might not be able to reach all of the fermenter to clean - that's at least 1 reason. Another is that it increases the contact time and temperature.

 

[DuncB]

I can't see the point of filling the whole fermenter. If you don't have a brewery pump buy a 1500l ( minimum ) per hour pond pump and a cip spray ball and set that up with a gallon of warm pbw and let her go. You still have to give a good rinse of the trub etc prior to this and any dried krausen it's worth a quick rub with a cloth, magic eraser, sponge or silicone scrubber. It's pretty quick and economical.

 

[lawngnomehitman]

You must not have arms like tree trunks. I cannot get my short, fat, and stubby appendages into the fermenter enough to touch half of the durn thing, so yea, fire away with the CIP ball and high temp hot chemicals, but you can't necessarily touch all of the inside of it. Some people aren't at that point yet, not lazy, just a method that they're at - I didn't have a unitank when I started either.

 

[DuncB]

@lawngnomehitman
No very skinny arm that can just get thru the opening of the fermentasaurus, sometimes a bit tricky at the funnybone part of elbow getting my arm out.
I did buy this at a shop selling japanese or chinese stuff ( bits of kitchen ware all kinds of things place) it works really well soft but effective and can reach all but inside the butterfly valve.
But can I find it to upload a picture searched high and low. Sorry.

 

[augiedoggy]

The pain is the filling the fermenters with 7 gallons of hot water, mixing in the PBW, finding somewhere to sit for 30 minutes, then draining and rinsing with hot water. It either ends up sitting in the kitchen sink or if doing a couple fermenters, find somewhere else to rest, or lug 5 gallon buckets of hot water to the fermenters outside. Again, would rather scrub and be done in a few minutes, rather than a 45 minute process that I have to come back to.

You do not need to use that much pbw mix... You can use even a half a gallon and manually scrub with that. I typically clean 100+gallon tanks and kettles with 10 gallons of pbw mix and a sprayball and 3/4hp sanitary pump at the brewpub.

keep in mind many dont know what they are missing as they havent seen a sprayball running with the correct size pump, but for a sprayball to work effectively they need a more powerful pump than typically owned by homebrewers. They make the mini homebrewer sprayballs but they tend to plug up very easily and even they are not very effective unless used with at least a 17gpm pump. Most homebrewer sprayball setups are more akin to gently spraying/rinsing than actual spray with force as intended. just to try is out I tried running the smallest sprayball I had off a riptide pump and it barely had enough power to effectively spin the ball let alone clean well.

on the flipside I had our transfer pump fail and had to use one of those cheap little 2gpm tan food grade pumps to pump 95 gallons of beer from a conical to the brite (through a bottom port in the brite no less and it handled it like a champ) I was amazed it could handle the head pressure.
When pumping beer, a pump that can be slowed down to not whip the ber up with shear force is beneficial to the beer.