Altbier

[balrog]

there's a solid example of the style brewed on Weyermann's own brewery: Weyermann® Nr. 37 Rheinaufwärts Alt. This is more or less a standard version of the modern Alt.

From the description therein: "The bouquet has fleeting notes of banana esters and clove"
<yeast recommendation is US05>

??

 

[Protos]

Wut the hell...
Ah, now I see: they've updated the linked recipe.
Here's the initial version of it I had saved offline. It's what I was referring to. The recommended yeast is K-97.
"Banana esters and clove" anyway... Disregard the silly esters description, esters will depend of the yeast of your choise.

US-05 fermented cold isn't the worst option BTW. In any case, far preferable to Kveiks.

 

[Bayou Fatma Brewer]

Looking for opinions on an upcoming Altbier I want to brew

Using Brewfather to design

4 gallons into fermenter after all said and done.

33.1 % pils
32.1% Munich
22.1% Vienna because why not?
6.2% caramunich iii
4.1% caramel 10 because I have it on hand and think it’s fun to add a kiss of sweetness
1.4% carafa to drag that stubborn Srm as dark as I wanted it

Probably a single step mash at 150

Might decoct a couple pounds at the end of the mash because I kind of just want to. And it will be tasty.

60 min boil

1oz Hautauer mittenfrau at 60
1 oz tettnag at 10
1oz spalt at flameout

Fermenter with either Voss or Lutra because I’m a rebel and do what I want…. Plus they seem to fit the description of what an alt should do.

I made a pretty good Altbier and used WLP 029 Yeast
Dry Yeast Substitution : Nottingham, BRY-97 American West Coast Ale Yeast (Danstar)

 

[balrog]

Wut the hell...
Ah, now I see: they've updated the linked recipe.
Here's the initial version of it I had saved offline. It's what I was referring to. The recommended yeast is K-97.
"Banana esters and clove" anyway... Disregard the silly esters description, esters will depend of the yeast of your choise.

US-05 fermented cold isn't the worst option BTW. In any case, far preferable to Kveiks.

OOooooo, thx for that. I was planning to stick with my WY1007 favorite anyway.

 

[Jloewe]

Well at least everyone seems to be in agreement the beer looks delicious haha.

It’s still a couple weeks before I brew but I take it I’ll drop the c10 and probably the kviek. Originally the Kviek was intended as a short cut as I went months without brewing until recently I’ve been in a tear. But making small batches and bottling in bombers I’m ripping through stock quickly. However I was thinking of having a marathon weekend to make this recipe and a pumpkin ale on back to back days. Pumpkin would be made with notty even though I’m still working on a grist. So no reason I can’t use notty on both or just go traditional and use Koln or k97.

 

[Protos]

How bitter you plan it to be? If around 40, you'd better leave some 3 to 5% Crystal, you need to counterbalance the bitterness nicely. I'd suggest to reevaluate the Vienna and Munich part: you don't need an overly toasty-biscuity beer, Alt is not as malty as Märzen, the big guys of the modern homebrewing use about 25% of Munich (I don't really know why they do even that, but who am I to argue, I don't want to look overly dismissive).

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

As I mentioned before, a very educational thread. Thanks Protos for your comments and insights!

 

[AlexKay]

Well at least everyone seems to be in agreement the beer looks delicious haha.

It’s still a couple weeks before I brew but I take it I’ll drop the c10 and probably the kviek. Originally the Kviek was intended as a short cut as I went months without brewing until recently I’ve been in a tear. But making small batches and bottling in bombers I’m ripping through stock quickly. However I was thinking of having a marathon weekend to make this recipe and a pumpkin ale on back to back days. Pumpkin would be made with notty even though I’m still working on a grist. So no reason I can’t use notty on both or just go traditional and use Koln or k97.

I've made some great beers with K97, but a fair number have a tart edge that really doesn't work. (Tart Grodziskie? Yech. It is perfect for Gose, though, and I'll never use anything else.) Koln is one of my absolute favorites. I use it for Kolsch (sorry, Kolsch-inspired sessionable clean German-style ales), altbier (Altbier-inspired...), CA Common, American Stout, Grodzikie, IPA ...

 

[Protos]

Tart Grodziskie? Yech

My K-97-fermented Grätzer was awful, I hated the style because of the tartness. With Mangrove M54 I came to like it more, and with Lalbrew Kölsch (and the correct water) I finally loved it. Now, with god-mode Gozdawa OGA-9, I'm ready to kill for Grätzer

 

[Bobby_M]

An alt that I'm currently enjoying, which I specifically modified to track with the more malty, less bitter Northern German that BJCP used to recognized as a separate substyle is below. Yes, it does have caramalt in there but I agree that it could have been left out by increasing the percentage of Munich. Caramunich malts do contribute a faux decoction flavor that fools many judges at least here in the U.S.

I realize I'm piling on at this point because I didn't see this thread earlier, but if you're going to call it an alt, above all else it really needs a German ale yeast. Without it, it won't even be remotely alt-like.

 

[Bobby_M]

Now, with god-mode Gozdawa OGA-9, I'm ready to kill for Grätzer

Hmm, hadn't heard about that yeast. I can't find any US imports. I've made a few Piwos with Omega Labs Kolsch II and they are good.

 

[Protos]

Gozdawa Old German Altbier 9, a Polish brand produced in Germany. I don't know if they export to the US, I buy them in Europe.
I think it's the best dry option for fermenting Grodziskie: OGA-9 is less tart than K-97, less estery than M54, less demanding in regard to pitch rate, lagtime and temp swings than Lalbrew Köln. Its difference with Lalbrew Köln is just marginal however, they are interchangable.

For an Altbier, I keep M54 in higher regard than OGA-9, because I love a tiny whiff of peary ester in my Alt, it somehow goes very well with the darker beer. For a Kölsch, I always use Lalbrew Köln. Unlike with the darker Alt, where some trace-level esters are allowable, for as pale a beer as Kölsch you want as clean a yeast as possible.

 

[Jloewe]

How bitter you plan it to be? If around 40, you'd better leave some 3 to 5% Crystal, you need to counterbalance the bitterness nicely. I'd suggest to reevaluate the Vienna and Munich part: you don't need an overly toasty-biscuity beer, Alt is not as malty as Märzen, the big guys of the modern homebrewing use about 25% of Munich (I don't really know why they do even that, but who am I to argue, I don't want to look overly dismissive).

Brewfather has it at 31. As far as the Munich and veinna go I was actually aiming for that. At least here in the US Altbier is about as common a good plate or tacos in Central Europe…. I’m sure it’s somewhere but good luck finding it. So many of us have been lead to believe it’s like a Marzen style Oktoberfest with hops and a kiss of ale character to it. Also a little off topic but maybe not? This is one of my first attempts at making a house ale. Like probably 99% of the people here my buddy and I dream of telling our boss to kiss our asses and opening our own tap room. This is one of those attempts at creating a year round drinkable but still tons of toasty bready flavor definitely German inspired beer.

 

[Protos]

All the best to your tap room plans!
You'll need to learn a lot though, guys. Like really lot, beginning with the BJCP stylebook.

 

[Protos]

An alt that I'm currently enjoying

Great recipe and understanding of the style.
I wonder however, why doubling Carafa with Simpsons? 2% Black is the standard among most recipes I've seen.

 

[Jloewe]

All the best to your tap room plans!
You'll need to learn a lot though, guys. Like really lot, beginning with the BJCP stylebook.

We’re both poor and I have a family that has to grow up first lol. Yeah I know we got a long way to go. But it’s the dream that keeps ya going in dead end crap jobs.

 

[Bobby_M]

Great recipe and understanding of the style.
I wonder however, why doubling Carafa with Simpsons? 2% Black is the standard among most recipes I've seen.

Total whim. I was staying away from the darker Carafa because I've gotten an ashy flavor from III at this percentage. Then I was still pretty light in color, like borderline too light so I added the chocolate. There's a very light chocolate flavor in the background that seems to just add depth to the sweetness of the Pilsner. I like simplifying grain bills as much as anyone, but I'm always hesitant to change anything when it ticks all the boxes for me.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Looking for opinions on an upcoming Altbier I want to brew

I suggest this previous thread :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/what-is-alt-beer.33694/page-2#post-9185386They average 1.047 OG, 80% attenuation and 34 EBC colour but the group of Dusselforf alts (excluding Uerig) are just under 30 IBU (BU:GU 62%), whereas Uerig is 48 IBU (BU:GU 102%). Uerig is also a touch paler (33 EBC) and a touch lower attenuation (78%) than the Dussedorf average.

But there's a group of alts (including some from Munster) that are rather different from the Dusseldorf ones, which can go as low as 12 IBU (and eg Pinkus is 18 IBU representing the Munster tradition).

90% pilsner, 10% Munich is all Diebels use, don't fall victim to the USian tendency to overcomplicate things.

I wonder, why those Deutsch-sounding designations are so popular to christen completely unrelated brews? It's not even style bastardisation, there's zero bytes of Alt genome in this recipe....And every time it's German. English beers seem to have better luck with that

IPA, mild and porter would all like a word....

 

[balrog]

IPA, ... would all like a word....

Truth.

I got asked once whether my homebrew used any hops, because none were tasted. I started to formulate a response along the lines of "grassy earthy spicy floral minty woody and sometimes fruity citrysy" and decided on, "yes".