Alright, really, no rinsing of Star San foam?

[IrregularPulse]

I have drank star-san and it does have a little bit of bite to it, but not bad

Also I always have my spray-bottle of star-san. My wife actually has one now so she can sanitize the countertops.

My wife would cringe at this as we have 3 chemical burned rings in our counter tops (just laminate but still not cheap enough to replace everyday) from Starsan.

 

[maltMonkey]

My wife would cringe at this as we have 3 chemical burned rings in our counter tops (just laminate but still not cheap enough to replace everyday) from Starsan.

same here.

 

[craigd]

I have to admit I have twice run out of sanitizer when the LHBS was closed and brewed anyway with judiciously clean equipment and so far not had an infected batch. I don't recommend it but in my case I'm lucky to get time for 1 brew per month so the risk was worthwhile to me. I doubt your rinse will be a big deal but I still suggest following the directions.

I personally think we get a little nuts about sanitizing but I don't see the harm in most cases either so why risk a batch if there's no reason to? <blasphemy> The alcohol we drink is probably worse for us than the Star-san that might be left in it...</blasphemy>

 

[bull8042]

.....Public water supplies are chlorinated and well-regulated......

I wouldn't be so sure about this! My water district has been reporting elevated levels tri-something-or-other for the last 8 months exceeding the federal limits and have only recently gotten the levels back in check. Just because it is "government regulated" really means nothing. There is no way I would allow my children to drink water directly from the tap. It goes through a very good filter first.
StarSan is an FDA approved NO-RINSE sanitizer, meaning you don't rinse it. I rack and bottle on foam every time I brew and have never had an off-flavor or problem associated with this practice. I also spray my airlock and stopper well before removing it to siphon out of the carboys. That sanitizer drops right into the beer when opened, again, no problems.
Leave traces of chlorine in your beer and tell what ill effects you have with off flavors.

 

[MOSFET]

I wouldn't be so sure about this! My water district has been reporting elevated levels tri-something-or-other for the last 8 months exceeding the federal limits and have only recently gotten the levels back in check. Just because it is "government regulated" really means nothing. There is no way I would allow my children to drink water directly from the tap. It goes through a very good filter first.
StarSan is an FDA approved NO-RINSE sanitizer, meaning you don't rinse it. I rack and bottle on foam every time I brew and have never had an off-flavor or problem associated with this practice. I also spray my airlock and stopper well before removing it to siphon out of the carboys. That sanitizer drops right into the beer when opened, again, no problems.
Leave traces of chlorine in your beer and tell what ill effects you have with off flavors.

You don't trust government-regulated water but you trust FDA-approved (government-regulated) sanitizer. Seems arbitrary.

And you're implying you make sure you have chlorine-free water in your Star-San solution?

Trace amounts from poorly-rinsed bleach sanitizer can definitely create off-flavors. Trace amounts from perhaps one teaspoon of TAP water left in a keg after a rinse are inconsequential.

Definitely filtering is a plus for tap water. Ironically, I wouldn't rinse with filtered water because I suspect there are more bugs in my filters than right from the tap.

I do believe all of you when you say you don't experience off flavors. That's great! I simply don't like making my beer with all that chemical foam. My preference. Sort of like chill haze. I FEEL better with clearer beer. I feel better rinsing all my sanitizers.

 

[CBBaron]

You don't trust government-regulated water but you trust FDA-approved (government-regulated) sanitizer. Seems arbitrary.

And you're implying you make sure you have chlorine-free water in your Star-San solution?

Trace amounts from poorly-rinsed bleach sanitizer can definitely create off-flavors. Trace amounts from perhaps one teaspoon of TAP water left in a keg after a rinse are inconsequential.

Definitely filtering is a plus for tap water. Ironically, I wouldn't rinse with filtered water because I suspect there are more bugs in my filters than right from the tap.

I do believe all of you when you say you don't experience off flavors. That's great! I simply don't like making my beer with all that chemical foam. My preference. Sort of like chill haze. I FEEL better with clearer beer. I feel better rinsing all my sanitizers.

Good point about the filters that most people don't think about. Filters are great places to grow a variety of organisms. Your tap water is probably safe and a small amount of tap water left in the fermenter will not cause problems from the chlorine as the concentrations are just too low.

However what is in those no-rinse sanitizers. Idophor is just iodine. We need trace amounts which is all you will get with what is left after draining. StarSan is primarily phosphoric acid and dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid. Phosphoric acid is found in sodas in much higher concentrations. Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid sounds scary but appears to be a fairly benign cleaning agent with few health or environmental warning except in concentrated form. Both appear to be safer than chlorine.

I think I will continue to use no-rinse sanitizers.

Craig

 

[bull8042]

You don't trust government-regulated water but you trust FDA-approved (government-regulated) sanitizer. Seems arbitrary.

And you're implying you make sure you have chlorine-free water in your Star-San solution?

Trace amounts from poorly-rinsed bleach sanitizer can definitely create off-flavors. Trace amounts from perhaps one teaspoon of TAP water left in a keg after a rinse are inconsequential.

Definitely filtering is a plus for tap water. Ironically, I wouldn't rinse with filtered water because I suspect there are more bugs in my filters than right from the tap.

I do believe all of you when you say you don't experience off flavors. That's great! I simply don't like making my beer with all that chemical foam. My preference. Sort of like chill haze. I FEEL better with clearer beer. I feel better rinsing all my sanitizers.

It is not government regulation vs FDA approval, but more that I trust Charley Talley who would stand to lose everything if his product doesn't perform as advertised.
As far as trusting my municipal water supply, which is monitored and regulated by some SC hillbilly..... Well, that is another story.
As far as bugs in my filter.... I don't use a cheapo Wallyworld filter to begin with, so I believe that issue is moot. If there were critters living in there that were able to escape into the water leaving, then I can't imagine it would be much of a filter.
So I guess it all comes down to what gives you the warm and fuzzies. I will stick with the overwhelming experience contained in and expressed by the brew gods on this forum coupled with personal experience. You can rinse out the foam and be happy as a pig in $hit if it works for you.
Obviously, neither one of us is going to change our methods, so we will just agree to disagree.

 

[CBBaron]

As far as bugs in my filter.... I don't use a cheapo Wallyworld filter to begin with, so I believe that issue is moot. If there were critters living in there that were able to escape into the water leaving, then I can't imagine it would be much of a filter.

Umm, a carbon filter does not have anything in it to prevent the growth of organisms. Carbon is actually a decent food for a number of "bugs". By the time the water exits the carbon there is no longer any chlorine to hinder them. Plus you have the hose and connections between the filter and the tap. Its not a matter of the quality of the filter but the inherent design of them.

Ofcourse the "bugs" that survive that environment usually do not survive in beer or the human body. But don't think the water coming out of your filter is pure, especially if you have not changed it recently.

However I do prefer using filtered water as the filter removes chlorine and other minerals better left behind. And as many people here I use StarSan as the no-rinse sanitizer it was intended.

Craig

 

[bull8042]

Umm, a carbon filter does not have anything in it to prevent the growth of organisms. Carbon is actually a decent food for a number of "bugs". By the time the water exits the carbon there is no longer any chlorine to hinder them. Plus you have the hose and connections between the filter and the tap. Its not a matter of the quality of the filter but the inherent design of them.

Ofcourse the "bugs" that survive that environment usually do not survive in beer or the human body. But don't think the water coming out of your filter is pure, especially if you have not changed it recently.

However I do prefer using filtered water as the filter removes chlorine and other minerals better left behind. And as many people here I use StarSan as the no-rinse sanitizer it was intended.

Craig

DANG IT! Stop freakin' me out about the quality of my filter and let me believe what I want to believe before I swear off drinking water altogether! Now I am picturing algae tentacles swaying in the currents of the water moving through the tubing on its way to my glass.
Thanks a lot Craig! Now I can only drink coffee and beer.....

 

[JVD_X]

My wife would cringe at this as we have 3 chemical burned rings in our counter tops (just laminate but still not cheap enough to replace everyday) from Starsan.

Also here...

For those that don't like the foam you can follow the Star-San with a rinse of Sani-Clean. This is a no-foam rinse also by Five Star Chemicals. I had a bottle of sani-clean but found that used alone the 3 minute contact time was too long being that the item to be essentially submerged for that time.

 

[BlindLemonLars]

Now I am picturing algae tentacles swaying in the currents of the water moving through the tubing on its way to my glass.
Thanks a lot Craig! Now I can only drink coffee and beer.....

Let me tell you about the funk that is probably growing inside your coffee maker!

 

[IrregularPulse]

Umm, a carbon filter does not have anything in it to prevent the growth of organisms. Carbon is actually a decent food for a number of "bugs". By the time the water exits the carbon there is no longer any chlorine to hinder them. Plus you have the hose and connections between the filter and the tap. Its not a matter of the quality of the filter but the inherent design of them.

Ofcourse the "bugs" that survive that environment usually do not survive in beer or the human body. But don't think the water coming out of your filter is pure, especially if you have not changed it recently.

However I do prefer using filtered water as the filter removes chlorine and other minerals better left behind. And as many people here I use StarSan as the no-rinse sanitizer it was intended.

Craig

Which would also support those of us telling him to not rinse with water

 

[bull8042]

Let me tell you about the funk that is probably growing inside your coffee maker!

You suck!

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

IMO, if you generally have decent sanitation practices and sanitize with Starsan...it doesn't really matter whether you rinse it or not. You're not going to have an infection.

If you don't have good sanitation practices...you'll prob still be OK a lot of the time but the other times...Starsan prob won't save you whether you rinse or not.

So if someone doesn't like racking on foam...rinse away...it won't hurt a thing.

I really think the added risk of infection from rinsing vs. non-rinsing is a total non-issue.

 

[rico567]

IMO, if you generally have decent sanitation practices and sanitize with Starsan...it doesn't really matter whether you rinse it or not. You're not going to have an infection.

If you don't have good sanitation practices...you'll prob still be OK a lot of the time but the other times...Starsan prob won't save you whether you rinse or not.

So if someone doesn't like racking on foam...rinse away...it won't hurt a thing.

I really think the added risk of infection from rinsing vs. non-rinsing is a total non-issue.

I agree with this. When I switched from acidified bleach to Star San, I admit I had some foamaphobia, but I hung in there, and I will add to the chorus of those who say it makes no difference whether you rinse or not.

OTOH, if you're just not comfortable with this, by all means rinse. I don't think it'll hurt a thing, and if it makes you feel better, all you've done is waste a little water.

 

[BlindLemonLars]

I agree with this. When I switched from acidified bleach to Star San, I admit I had some foamaphobia, but I hung in there, and I will add to the chorus of those who say it makes no difference whether you rinse or not.

OTOH, if you're just not comfortable with this, by all means rinse. I don't think it'll hurt a thing, and if it makes you feel better, all you've done is waste a little water.

Actually, the "chorus" would be DON'T rinse. There is little point using a no-rinse sanitizer if you're going to rinse it away...it's like putting sunblock on, and then washing it off before you hit the beach. Save your money and skip the Star San, if you're going to rinse it away with unboiled water.

Sorry, but tap water quality is a HUGE variable. That's just bad advice.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Actually, the "chorus" would be DON'T rinse. There is little point using a no-rinse sanitizer if you're going to rinse it away...it's like putting sunblock on, and then washing it off before you hit the beach. Save your money and skip the Star San, if you're going to rinse it away with unboiled water.

This is where I call shenanigans. Using Starsan and rinsing it off is WAAAAAYYYY better than not sanitizing at all...and only marginally worse than not rinsing. This is just wrong...plain and simple.

People used bleach and iodofor (and not in 'no-rinse' concentrations) for years without any problems. They sanitized and then rinsed with sanitary water (that was not boiled). Obv if your water is not sanitary then you shouldn't rinse with it...nor should you even be drinking it.

 

[BlindLemonLars]

This is where I call shenanigans. Using Starsan and rinsing it off is WAAAAAYYYY better than not sanitizing at all...and only marginally worse than not rinsing. This is just wrong...plain and simple.

Shenanigans aside, why not use the product CORRECTLY!?!? The way it is designed to work, the way it DOES work most effectively? By rinsing it off you are greatly diminishing it's efficacy. You are replacing an actively protective layer of sanitizer with tap water that most assuredly contains some bacteria. The foam is a helpful feature of the product, not a negative side effect. It's called a "no rinse" sanitizer for a reason!

I wasn't advocating not using sanitizer at all, just illustrating a point. You're welcome to give in to your irrational and misguided fear of foam, and if your water is reasonably clean you will probably get away with it most of the time. Still, beginners who come here looking to learn correct sanitizing procedures should hear the truth.

 

[wildwest450]

Shenanigans aside, why not use the product CORRECTLY!?!? The way it is designed to work, the way it DOES work most effectively? By rinsing it off you are greatly diminishing it's efficacy. You are replacing an actively protective layer of sanitizer with tap water that most assuredly contains some bacteria. The foam is a helpful feature of the product, not a negative side effect. It's called a "no rinse" sanitizer for a reason!

I wasn't advocating not using sanitizer at all, just illustrating a point. You're welcome to give in to your irrational and misguided fear of foam, and if your water is reasonably clean you will probably get away with it most of the time. Still, beginners who come here looking to learn correct sanitizing procedures should hear the truth.

+1, Polite golf clap. Why do people find it so hard to follow basic directions?

 

[macabra11]

Quick Question... after you mix up a batch of StarSan solution, how long is it good for? Could you reuse it for any given length of time? Or does it loose effectiveness?

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I do use it correctly...I'm just saying that if somebody wants to rinse it that it's perfectly fine to do so. There was an implication that one is ruining their beer or completely 'unsanitizing' their equipment by rinsing and that's just not the case.

I could drive my car (which has air bags and correct seat belts) with a full face helmet and flame-proof suit...and I would be safer. But that doesn't mean it's a huge, negligent risk to not do so.

Still, beginners who come here looking to learn correct sanitizing procedures should hear the truth.

Exactly why I called shenanigans...because what you were saying was not the truth. I don't think lying to them to scare them into doing it your way is the right way. Just give them the truth and let them decide.

 

[bull8042]

+1, Polite golf clap. Why do people find it so hard to follow basic directions?

My sentiments exactly. This has turned into a needless BS debate. Just follow the freakin' directions and be done with it.

Quick Question... after you mix up a batch of StarSan solution, how long is it good for? Could you reuse it for any given length of time? Or does it loose effectiveness?

It can last for months if you use distilled water. Using regular tap water or spring water is fine short term (A few weeks even). But after a period of time, the minerals in the water will begin to hamper the effectiveness of the sanitizer action. This can be determined when it begins to cloud. Length of time is basically determined by the type and concentrations of the minerals.

 

[Stef1966]

There's a little angel on the other shoulder saying "that's a lot of gunk, it can't be good for you, I mean you wouldn't drink the Star San solution straight out of the bucket, so why would you want to drink it in your beer?"

I feel the exact same way, matter of fact, i don't trust something i cannot rinse, i only use chlorinated soap (type of bleaching) and rinse thoroughly.
No star san for me... wanna drink some funky chemicals?
no thanks...

 

[Stef1966]

Ok i have gone and looked out Star san, the site said the main active ingredient being phosphoric acid.
I have googled phosphoric acid and it is regularly used in soft drinks like Pepsi, Coke and such, it is also said to leach calcium from the bones, weakening them and making them more prone to breaks.

Not so harmful as i thought, i may try it but no one will convince me into "not rinsing" it thought.

 

[BlindLemonLars]

Anybody really interested in separating the signal from the noise and learning the truth about Star San should check out the Brewing Network interview with Charlie Talley. It's more interesting and entertaining than you might think!

Sunday Live Show 03-19-06 mp3 format

 

[IrregularPulse]

No star san for me... wanna drink some funky chemicals?
no thanks...

I think this is a very uneducated response and hate seeing it's kind.
Oh no that's chemicals, I won't eat/drink that. You think any of the stuff you buy at the grocery store is chemical free?

Chemical doesn't mean "harmful to the body".

Chemical "any substance used in or resulting from a reaction involving changes to atoms or molecules "

Doesn't mention anything bad in there.

It's your right to rinse because you want to, but if your only reason is because drinking chemicals is bad for you, then you need to do a little more research.

I feel the exact same way, matter of fact, i don't trust something i cannot rinse,

So what do you rinse your rinse water with afterwards? This is a rediculous comparison but in reality is just as good or bad for you.

 

[Stef1966]

It's your right to rinse because you want to, but if your only reason is because drinking chemicals is bad for you, then you need to do a little more research.

You are right, and this is exactly what i have done if you check the post i did just after my initial one.

The main active ingredient in star san is phosphoric acid and it is a nuisance to the bone system.
That personally speaking, is enough of a reason for me to avoid using it.

 

[bull8042]

You are right, and this is exactly what i have done if you check the post i did just after my initial one.

The main active ingredient in star san is phosphoric acid and it is a nuisance to the bone system.
That personally speaking, is enough of a reason for me to avoid using it.

And if you religiously avoid soft drinks for the same reason, then you have a valid reason.
If you are pecking away on your keyboard while sipping a Coke, then your concerns are asinine.

Also, to everyone who has these "chemical" concerns, never ever buy ANY meat products, especially chicken. They all use an acidic sanitizer like StarSan on all of their equipment and conveyor systems and don't rinse.....

 

[llazy_llama]

Really, it's a dead horse. If you want to rinse, then go for it. Your beer will be fine... most of the time.

Me, I'll stick to not rinsing, following proper sanitization guidelines, and being careful. My beer will also be fine... all of the time.

Edited: Oh, and as for phosphoric acid being bad for your bones, this is true. However, I recently learned of another chemical in our homebrew that is bad for your liver, stomach, and can potentially kill brain cells. Man, I can't believe I went this long without hearing about it, it's not mentioned in Palmer, Papazian, or any of the other homebrew books. Anyone who's curious, go google "alcohol." That stuff is evil!

 

[JPicasso]

Hmmmm, people here are worrying about pouring 5 gallons of wort onto some residual suds, while lazy brewers (read:me) have used our spray bottle of star-san as our boil-over control when the water bottle was all the way downstairs.

I'm not lazy, I'm providing yeast nutrients.