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Alright, really, no rinsing of Star San foam?

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Beerrific

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cubbies said:
and :off: I personally doubt the ramifications of rinsing it. I dont think that tap water is so full of bugs that rinsing off the foam would be counterproductive. I bet it would still be sanitary. What do I know though?
Potable drinking water is not, in general, sanitary so rinsing would leave the item unsanitary. But, would leave any/enough bugs to hurt your beer? Don't know....don't want to know.
 

Beerthoven

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Beerrific said:
Potable drinking water is not, in general, sanitary so rinsing would leave the item unsanitary. But, would leave any/enough bugs to hurt your beer? Don't know....don't want to know.
Before I learned to Love the Foam I routinely rinsed it out with tap water. No infections resulted.
 
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IMO, anything you do to the vessel post Starsan adds risk of contamination.
The risk could be minor but in the worst-case scenario, the outcome is a failed batch. Therefore; anything extracurricular better be important in the brewing process.

Rinsing, again IMO, does not add to the brewing process.
 

cubbies

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bradsul said:
I wouldn't bet my own beer on it, but to each his own. ;)
Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt, nor do I, risk my beer on it. I am just saying that I doubt it would be a problem if it did happen. I am sure there are many a brewer who rinse 'no-rinse' sanitizer and are not getting infections.
 

Funkenjaeger

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There are thousands of people out there who have done partial boils and use regular old tap water to top off the fermenter with, without boiling or otherwise sanitizing it first, and I'm sure that the vast majority of them have successfully brewed beer that way without infection.
The risk of adding several gallons of tap water to your fermenter has got to be a lot more significant than giving your equipment a quick rinse with tap water after sanitizing, and yet people seem to freak out a lot more about the latter. (Not trying to say either is a good idea)

But what's the excuse for using tap as top-off water? More often than not, I think it's that pre-boiling and cooling your tap water is a hassle, and buying bottled water costs money. It's not a GOOD excuse, but it's a common one. Experienced brewers warn against it, but people still skip it.

But rinsing after sanitizing with starsan is practically the opposite. It requires more effort, there is no benefit, and if anything it increases risk of infection (even if it is by some probably negligible amount). Experienced brewers warn against it, but people keep doing it.

I think the moral of the story is that sometimes people just don't want to listen to advice :p
Personally, I'm one of those who runs around with a spray bottle full of starsan and uses it on everything, and never rinses after sanitizing - I can't understand why anyone would expend MORE effort to be LESS sanitary - to each his own. But I also acknowledge that rinsing is not very likely to cause problems - again, to each his own.
 

malkore

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You can DRINK star-san. at worst, it tastes funny and will give you mud butt.

DO NOT FEAR THE FOAM. the foam sanitizes too.
 
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I don't worry too much about the foam. If you're careful with how you pour your water out, though, and keep the flow out of the fermenter more or less laminar, you don't end up with too much foam. Same thing works when you're sanitizing your bottles, incidentally.
 

toasted

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How about bottling?

Is it ok to have some foam left on the bottles before you pour the final product into them to bottle condition?
 

D2T

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Foam is your friend. I just did my first batch using Starsan yesterday and I can tell you that my IPA is bubbling away happily.
 

MOSFET

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Ok, I'm in the minority. I have always rinsed with hot tap water, whether rinsing diluted bleach or Star San. A giant cascade of Star San foam, though beautiful, has no place in my beer. Public water supplies are chlorinated and well-regulated. I can't say for sure I'd rinse if I were on a well, but I've been rinsing for many years and have never had an infection. But, as usual, there are people who report success with both approaches, so relax, don't worry. Both ways work.
 
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Public water supplies are chlorinated and well-regulated.
Which is why several brewers on here have to either use bottled water for brewing or have to alter the makeup of their water for brewing. Just because it's regulated by the gubment, doesn't make it great!

OP-
Why do you feel one more thread about not fearing the foam is going to convince you? If they first 900 didn't, I don't think 901 will. Do a test. Brew up a batch then split in in primaries. Leave the foam in one, rinse one. See if you notice any difference good or bad.

But really, don't fear it.
 

MOSFET

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Chlorinated water has no place in my beer.
Absolutely. I have a filter for the brew water and just use the tap for rinsing. It comforts me both to smell a little chlorine from the tap and to smell none from the filter.
 

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I have drank star-san and it does have a little bit of bite to it, but not bad ;)

Also I always have my spray-bottle of star-san. My wife actually has one now so she can sanitize the countertops.
 

SCARYLARRY

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How about bottling?

Is it ok to have some foam left on the bottles before you pour the final product into them to bottle condition?
I pull my bottles right of of the bucket of Star San, empty and fill. Nice little foamy monsters come out of the bottles.:D
 
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I have drank star-san and it does have a little bit of bite to it, but not bad ;)

Also I always have my spray-bottle of star-san. My wife actually has one now so she can sanitize the countertops.
My wife would cringe at this as we have 3 chemical burned rings in our counter tops (just laminate but still not cheap enough to replace everyday) from Starsan.
 

craigd

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I have to admit I have twice run out of sanitizer when the LHBS was closed and brewed anyway with judiciously clean equipment and so far not had an infected batch. I don't recommend it but in my case I'm lucky to get time for 1 brew per month so the risk was worthwhile to me. I doubt your rinse will be a big deal but I still suggest following the directions.

I personally think we get a little nuts about sanitizing but I don't see the harm in most cases either so why risk a batch if there's no reason to? <blasphemy> The alcohol we drink is probably worse for us than the Star-san that might be left in it...</blasphemy>
 

bull8042

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.....Public water supplies are chlorinated and well-regulated......
I wouldn't be so sure about this! My water district has been reporting elevated levels tri-something-or-other for the last 8 months exceeding the federal limits and have only recently gotten the levels back in check. Just because it is "government regulated" really means nothing. There is no way I would allow my children to drink water directly from the tap. It goes through a very good filter first.
StarSan is an FDA approved NO-RINSE sanitizer, meaning you don't rinse it. I rack and bottle on foam every time I brew and have never had an off-flavor or problem associated with this practice. I also spray my airlock and stopper well before removing it to siphon out of the carboys. That sanitizer drops right into the beer when opened, again, no problems.
Leave traces of chlorine in your beer and tell what ill effects you have with off flavors.
 

MOSFET

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I wouldn't be so sure about this! My water district has been reporting elevated levels tri-something-or-other for the last 8 months exceeding the federal limits and have only recently gotten the levels back in check. Just because it is "government regulated" really means nothing. There is no way I would allow my children to drink water directly from the tap. It goes through a very good filter first.
StarSan is an FDA approved NO-RINSE sanitizer, meaning you don't rinse it. I rack and bottle on foam every time I brew and have never had an off-flavor or problem associated with this practice. I also spray my airlock and stopper well before removing it to siphon out of the carboys. That sanitizer drops right into the beer when opened, again, no problems.
Leave traces of chlorine in your beer and tell what ill effects you have with off flavors.
You don't trust government-regulated water but you trust FDA-approved (government-regulated) sanitizer. Seems arbitrary.

And you're implying you make sure you have chlorine-free water in your Star-San solution?

Trace amounts from poorly-rinsed bleach sanitizer can definitely create off-flavors. Trace amounts from perhaps one teaspoon of TAP water left in a keg after a rinse are inconsequential.

Definitely filtering is a plus for tap water. Ironically, I wouldn't rinse with filtered water because I suspect there are more bugs in my filters than right from the tap.

I do believe all of you when you say you don't experience off flavors. That's great! I simply don't like making my beer with all that chemical foam. My preference. Sort of like chill haze. I FEEL better with clearer beer. I feel better rinsing all my sanitizers. :)
 

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You don't trust government-regulated water but you trust FDA-approved (government-regulated) sanitizer. Seems arbitrary.

And you're implying you make sure you have chlorine-free water in your Star-San solution?

Trace amounts from poorly-rinsed bleach sanitizer can definitely create off-flavors. Trace amounts from perhaps one teaspoon of TAP water left in a keg after a rinse are inconsequential.

Definitely filtering is a plus for tap water. Ironically, I wouldn't rinse with filtered water because I suspect there are more bugs in my filters than right from the tap.

I do believe all of you when you say you don't experience off flavors. That's great! I simply don't like making my beer with all that chemical foam. My preference. Sort of like chill haze. I FEEL better with clearer beer. I feel better rinsing all my sanitizers. :)
Good point about the filters that most people don't think about. Filters are great places to grow a variety of organisms. Your tap water is probably safe and a small amount of tap water left in the fermenter will not cause problems from the chlorine as the concentrations are just too low.

However what is in those no-rinse sanitizers. Idophor is just iodine. We need trace amounts which is all you will get with what is left after draining. StarSan is primarily phosphoric acid and dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid. Phosphoric acid is found in sodas in much higher concentrations. Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid sounds scary but appears to be a fairly benign cleaning agent with few health or environmental warning except in concentrated form. Both appear to be safer than chlorine.

I think I will continue to use no-rinse sanitizers.

Craig
 

bull8042

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You don't trust government-regulated water but you trust FDA-approved (government-regulated) sanitizer. Seems arbitrary.

And you're implying you make sure you have chlorine-free water in your Star-San solution?

Trace amounts from poorly-rinsed bleach sanitizer can definitely create off-flavors. Trace amounts from perhaps one teaspoon of TAP water left in a keg after a rinse are inconsequential.

Definitely filtering is a plus for tap water. Ironically, I wouldn't rinse with filtered water because I suspect there are more bugs in my filters than right from the tap.

I do believe all of you when you say you don't experience off flavors. That's great! I simply don't like making my beer with all that chemical foam. My preference. Sort of like chill haze. I FEEL better with clearer beer. I feel better rinsing all my sanitizers. :)
It is not government regulation vs FDA approval, but more that I trust Charley Talley who would stand to lose everything if his product doesn't perform as advertised.
As far as trusting my municipal water supply, which is monitored and regulated by some SC hillbilly..... Well, that is another story.
As far as bugs in my filter.... I don't use a cheapo Wallyworld filter to begin with, so I believe that issue is moot. If there were critters living in there that were able to escape into the water leaving, then I can't imagine it would be much of a filter.
So I guess it all comes down to what gives you the warm and fuzzies. I will stick with the overwhelming experience contained in and expressed by the brew gods on this forum coupled with personal experience. You can rinse out the foam and be happy as a pig in $hit if it works for you.
Obviously, neither one of us is going to change our methods, so we will just agree to disagree. :mug:
 

CBBaron

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As far as bugs in my filter.... I don't use a cheapo Wallyworld filter to begin with, so I believe that issue is moot. If there were critters living in there that were able to escape into the water leaving, then I can't imagine it would be much of a filter.
Umm, a carbon filter does not have anything in it to prevent the growth of organisms. Carbon is actually a decent food for a number of "bugs". By the time the water exits the carbon there is no longer any chlorine to hinder them. Plus you have the hose and connections between the filter and the tap. Its not a matter of the quality of the filter but the inherent design of them.

Ofcourse the "bugs" that survive that environment usually do not survive in beer or the human body. But don't think the water coming out of your filter is pure, especially if you have not changed it recently.

However I do prefer using filtered water as the filter removes chlorine and other minerals better left behind. And as many people here I use StarSan as the no-rinse sanitizer it was intended.

Craig
 

bull8042

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Umm, a carbon filter does not have anything in it to prevent the growth of organisms. Carbon is actually a decent food for a number of "bugs". By the time the water exits the carbon there is no longer any chlorine to hinder them. Plus you have the hose and connections between the filter and the tap. Its not a matter of the quality of the filter but the inherent design of them.

Ofcourse the "bugs" that survive that environment usually do not survive in beer or the human body. But don't think the water coming out of your filter is pure, especially if you have not changed it recently.

However I do prefer using filtered water as the filter removes chlorine and other minerals better left behind. And as many people here I use StarSan as the no-rinse sanitizer it was intended.

Craig
DANG IT! Stop freakin' me out about the quality of my filter and let me believe what I want to believe before I swear off drinking water altogether! Now I am picturing algae tentacles swaying in the currents of the water moving through the tubing on its way to my glass.
Thanks a lot Craig! Now I can only drink coffee and beer..... :D
 

JVD_X

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My wife would cringe at this as we have 3 chemical burned rings in our counter tops (just laminate but still not cheap enough to replace everyday) from Starsan.
Also here...

For those that don't like the foam you can follow the Star-San with a rinse of Sani-Clean. This is a no-foam rinse also by Five Star Chemicals. I had a bottle of sani-clean but found that used alone the 3 minute contact time was too long being that the item to be essentially submerged for that time.
 
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Umm, a carbon filter does not have anything in it to prevent the growth of organisms. Carbon is actually a decent food for a number of "bugs". By the time the water exits the carbon there is no longer any chlorine to hinder them. Plus you have the hose and connections between the filter and the tap. Its not a matter of the quality of the filter but the inherent design of them.

Ofcourse the "bugs" that survive that environment usually do not survive in beer or the human body. But don't think the water coming out of your filter is pure, especially if you have not changed it recently.

However I do prefer using filtered water as the filter removes chlorine and other minerals better left behind. And as many people here I use StarSan as the no-rinse sanitizer it was intended.

Craig
Which would also support those of us telling him to not rinse with water :)
 

SpanishCastleAle

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IMO, if you generally have decent sanitation practices and sanitize with Starsan...it doesn't really matter whether you rinse it or not. You're not going to have an infection.

If you don't have good sanitation practices...you'll prob still be OK a lot of the time but the other times...Starsan prob won't save you whether you rinse or not.

So if someone doesn't like racking on foam...rinse away...it won't hurt a thing.

I really think the added risk of infection from rinsing vs. non-rinsing is a total non-issue.
 

rico567

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IMO, if you generally have decent sanitation practices and sanitize with Starsan...it doesn't really matter whether you rinse it or not. You're not going to have an infection.

If you don't have good sanitation practices...you'll prob still be OK a lot of the time but the other times...Starsan prob won't save you whether you rinse or not.

So if someone doesn't like racking on foam...rinse away...it won't hurt a thing.

I really think the added risk of infection from rinsing vs. non-rinsing is a total non-issue.
I agree with this. When I switched from acidified bleach to Star San, I admit I had some foamaphobia, but I hung in there, and I will add to the chorus of those who say it makes no difference whether you rinse or not.

OTOH, if you're just not comfortable with this, by all means rinse. I don't think it'll hurt a thing, and if it makes you feel better, all you've done is waste a little water.
 
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I agree with this. When I switched from acidified bleach to Star San, I admit I had some foamaphobia, but I hung in there, and I will add to the chorus of those who say it makes no difference whether you rinse or not.

OTOH, if you're just not comfortable with this, by all means rinse. I don't think it'll hurt a thing, and if it makes you feel better, all you've done is waste a little water.
Actually, the "chorus" would be DON'T rinse. There is little point using a no-rinse sanitizer if you're going to rinse it away...it's like putting sunblock on, and then washing it off before you hit the beach. Save your money and skip the Star San, if you're going to rinse it away with unboiled water.

Sorry, but tap water quality is a HUGE variable. That's just bad advice.
 

SpanishCastleAle

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Actually, the "chorus" would be DON'T rinse. There is little point using a no-rinse sanitizer if you're going to rinse it away...it's like putting sunblock on, and then washing it off before you hit the beach. Save your money and skip the Star San, if you're going to rinse it away with unboiled water.
This is where I call shenanigans. Using Starsan and rinsing it off is WAAAAAYYYY better than not sanitizing at all...and only marginally worse than not rinsing. This is just wrong...plain and simple.

People used bleach and iodofor (and not in 'no-rinse' concentrations) for years without any problems. They sanitized and then rinsed with sanitary water (that was not boiled). Obv if your water is not sanitary then you shouldn't rinse with it...nor should you even be drinking it.
 
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This is where I call shenanigans. Using Starsan and rinsing it off is WAAAAAYYYY better than not sanitizing at all...and only marginally worse than not rinsing. This is just wrong...plain and simple.
Shenanigans aside, why not use the product CORRECTLY!?!? The way it is designed to work, the way it DOES work most effectively? By rinsing it off you are greatly diminishing it's efficacy. You are replacing an actively protective layer of sanitizer with tap water that most assuredly contains some bacteria. The foam is a helpful feature of the product, not a negative side effect. It's called a "no rinse" sanitizer for a reason!

I wasn't advocating not using sanitizer at all, just illustrating a point. You're welcome to give in to your irrational and misguided fear of foam, and if your water is reasonably clean you will probably get away with it most of the time. Still, beginners who come here looking to learn correct sanitizing procedures should hear the truth.
 

wildwest450

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Shenanigans aside, why not use the product CORRECTLY!?!? The way it is designed to work, the way it DOES work most effectively? By rinsing it off you are greatly diminishing it's efficacy. You are replacing an actively protective layer of sanitizer with tap water that most assuredly contains some bacteria. The foam is a helpful feature of the product, not a negative side effect. It's called a "no rinse" sanitizer for a reason!

I wasn't advocating not using sanitizer at all, just illustrating a point. You're welcome to give in to your irrational and misguided fear of foam, and if your water is reasonably clean you will probably get away with it most of the time. Still, beginners who come here looking to learn correct sanitizing procedures should hear the truth.
+1, Polite golf clap. Why do people find it so hard to follow basic directions?
 

macabra11

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Quick Question... after you mix up a batch of StarSan solution, how long is it good for? Could you reuse it for any given length of time? Or does it loose effectiveness?
 
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