Along the lines of secondary fermentation

[welshdemon]

I've read a lot but still can't quite answer this myself so I wonder if you can help.

I've bottled after primary via syphon, leaving most of the trub behind. 2 weeks later I am drinking them, it is pretty clear in the bottle, but there is sediment (of course), a thin line at the bottom of the bottle. Not a big problem but I'd love it to be clear as pouring it some of it clouds up the drink (though I do try to leave most of it behind in the bottle)

So if this sediment is built up after 2 weeks in the bottle, I was thinking if I moved from primary to a secondary (when primary was finished) and left it in there for 2 weeks, the sediment will be at the bottom, then bottled & primed as usual, this should be OK shouldn't it? Then a lot of the sediment will be left in the second vessel.

I know this isn't secondary fermentation as such, because that requires transfer to secondary vessel a lot sooner, (I think?) hence having to ask this.

I know to be careful not to aerate when I transfer to the second vessel (and third if batch priming).

Any problems with this plan? Leaving it in another vessel for 2 weeks after fermentation was complete?

Thanks for any help

 

[beergolf]

I won't get into the big debate about to secondary or not.

You are always going to have sediment in the bottle for a bottle conditioned beer. The more you let the yeast settle out before you rack to the bottling bucket, the less you will have. But, ypu are never going to have a sediment free bottle conditioned beer.

If you put the bottles in the fridge after they are carbed up and leave them for at least a week, the sediment packs down very tightly and is less of a problem.

 

[grainbill]

Then there are those of us that tend to swirl the bottle and add the sediment to our glass, from time to time...

 

[trentm]

I've read a lot but still can't quite answer this myself so I wonder if you can help.

I've bottled after primary via syphon, leaving most of the trub behind. 2 weeks later I am drinking them, it is pretty clear in the bottle, but there is sediment (of course), a thin line at the bottom of the bottle. Not a big problem but I'd love it to be clear as pouring it some of it clouds up the drink (though I do try to leave most of it behind in the bottle)

So if this sediment is built up after 2 weeks in the bottle, I was thinking if I moved from primary to a secondary (when primary was finished) and left it in there for 2 weeks, the sediment will be at the bottom, then bottled & primed as usual, this should be OK shouldn't it? Then a lot of the sediment will be left in the second vessel.

I know this isn't secondary fermentation as such, because that requires transfer to secondary vessel a lot sooner, (I think?) hence having to ask this.

I know to be careful not to aerate when I transfer to the second vessel (and third if batch priming).

Any problems with this plan? Leaving it in another vessel for 2 weeks after fermentation was complete?

Thanks for any help

While I am a proponent of using a secondary in many cases, it is not really necessary for clear beer. Not sure how much time your beer is spending in the primary but a month to 6 weeks is OK. If you don't want to secondary, try using gelatin after your are sure the fermentation is finished and cleaned up. Gelatin works best on cold beer, so you can cold crash (be careful about "suck back" and oxidation). If you add a hot gelatin solution to cold beer, the solution will come to the surface after it's poured in and then move down through the beer as it cools bringing the yeast and some proteins with it.

This said, yes you can move it to a secondary as you described. I do it on all my Belgians, often adding the gelatin in the secondary.

 

[dkevinb]

The only way I've ever heard of completely eliminating sediment from bottle-conditioned beer is with these special gizmo caps. Unfortunately, they're very spendy.

 

[trentm]

You are always going to have sediment in the bottle for a bottle conditioned beer. The more you let the yeast settle out before you rack to the bottling bucket, the less you will have. But, ypu are never going to have a sediment free bottle conditioned beer.

Well yes that's true but I have found if you really clear your beer before bottling, the yeast from the bottle ferment will form a thin hard layer from which you can pour every drop of beer leaving the layer of yeast packed tightly on the bottom.

Let me say, I often bulk condition in the secondary until re-yeasting is necessary for a good bottle refermentation.

 

[agrazela]

I've read a lot but still can't quite answer this myself so I wonder if you can help.

I've bottled after primary via syphon, leaving most of the trub behind. 2 weeks later I am drinking them, it is pretty clear in the bottle, but there is sediment (of course), a thin line at the bottom of the bottle. Not a big problem but I'd love it to be clear as pouring it some of it clouds up the drink (though I do try to leave most of it behind in the bottle)

So if this sediment is built up after 2 weeks in the bottle, I was thinking if I moved from primary to a secondary (when primary was finished) and left it in there for 2 weeks, the sediment will be at the bottom, then bottled & primed as usual, this should be OK shouldn't it? Then a lot of the sediment will be left in the second vessel.

I know this isn't secondary fermentation as such, because that requires transfer to secondary vessel a lot sooner, (I think?) hence having to ask this.

I know to be careful not to aerate when I transfer to the second vessel (and third if batch priming).

Any problems with this plan? Leaving it in another vessel for 2 weeks after fermentation was complete?

Thanks for any help

What you're talking about is essentially a "bright tank."

I completely agree with those who say that a "secondary" (or "bright tank," depending how you use it) is not strictly necessary to make beer. But after trying so many different methods, I have come BACK to using a bright tank (with gelatin fining) especially for brews that I want to turn around quickly and drink young like PA's and IPA's, because I find that it gives me the clarity I want, as well as smoothing some of the overtly harsh tones you might get from aggressive hopping and/or from yeasts that might not floc so quickly. And I also agree it works best when you cold crash the primary, THEN transfer into secondary ON TOP OF dissolved gelatin solution.

I may have to add a bit more hops to retain the aroma (gelatin fining does strip some of that, yes). But that's very worthwhile to me to shave 2-4 weeks off of grain-to-glass and have myself an extremely fresh, hoppy brew with commercial-level clarity that you can give away and not have to hear about how it was all cloudy and "yeast twang-y" because it wasn't fridged long enough and/or wasn't poured right and/or was chugged right from the bottle.

 

[McKnuckle]

What folks say about the bottle yeast forming a hard layer is basically true. If fluffy stuff floats up easily within your bottle as you try to pour it, it is probably trub - mostly cold break - not yeast. That's why clarifying/settling as much as possible before bottling, and using absolute care when racking/siphoning, are so important to the packaged product. It's why new brewers are always told to "chill out" when they want to rush and bottle so quickly.

Q: "Hey, can I bottle my brew?!" A: "Well, yes you can, but..."

Unless you are super consistent with process and equipment, and always use the same vessels and volumes, you really need to evaluate each brew as a unique product and decide what techniques make the most sense to handle it. That means sometimes packaging from primary, sometimes secondary, cold crashing, fining, and extended storage as necessary. Using a secondary vessel is to me just a basic skill that every brewer should know how to do, and know when to do. It's not a rigid prescriptive or proscriptive step in brewing.

 

[welshdemon]

Wow, lots of answers. Thanks!

I might try leaving it in the primary longer then next time, that make sense. Though what put me off this idea, my first brew last year went funny after a few weeks in primary, started developing an oily film over the top and tasted different....I was drinking it straight from primary once fermentation had completed as I was recovering from a broken leg and couldn't be bothered bottling it and waiting for condition! It was drinkable at first but as mentioned a few weeks later went a bit funny.

For these ones I have left though, I will leave a couple in the fridge for a week and see how they are then, I've heard that this will also clear up the chill haze which I have noticed happening! And anyway there will only be a couple left in a week, if that, lol, so I will make sure to leave 1 or 2 for testing purposes!

Thanks again.

 

[welshdemon]

Due to lack of buckets and cash to buy bucket at the mo I don't fancy leaving in primary for extra weeks.


Just wondering how soon can I put bottles in the fridge during conditioning? If the general consensus on these cheap kits is (after primary / priming / bottling) leave them at room temperature for a few days then about 13c for at least 10 days,
but taste will improve if left for 2 months, but can this be in the fridge or does it mean leave at 13c for 2 months to continue conditioning?
So will they still condition further in the fridge?

 

[dkevinb]

Due to lack of buckets and cash to buy bucket at the mo I don't fancy leaving in primary for extra weeks.


Just wondering how soon can I put bottles in the fridge during conditioning? If the general consensus on these cheap kits is (after primary / priming / bottling) leave them at room temperature for a few days then about 13c for at least 10 days,
but taste will improve if left for 2 months, but can this be in the fridge or does it mean leave at 13c for 2 months to continue conditioning?
So will they still condition further in the fridge?

I always leave my bottles at room temp for 2 weeks after bottling. Many people will argue that 3 is better. A few days isn't enough to carbonate completely, let alone condition. After 2 weeks I put them in the fridge and drink them when they're cold. Yes, they will continue to improve while they are in the fridge, but they will not carbonate more. The yeast will go dormant.

 

[welshdemon]

Thanks for the reply.