Allagash White yeast - temperature schedule

[aslander]

I harvested allagash white yeast and created a starter with it for a witbier. Has anybody used this yeast much?

I'm wondering what commercially available yeast this is most similar to and therefore what temperature schedule I should use.

By the way, this stuff is very krauseny. A 1L starter overflowed from a 2L erlenmeyer.

 

[aslander]

Since I never received any replies from anyone, nor did I ever manage to track down information, I wanted to post my results with this yeast in order to help people in the future.

The Allagash White yeast starter was very active, as you can see from the previous picture, and the starter tasted really good for a starter. I pitched more than enough into a 6 gallon Witbier that I brewed.

I kept the fermentation schedule close to what I was finding for other belgian strains like WLP400. I fermented at 69F for the first 4 days, raised to 71 for the next week. Fermentation was quite vigorous and had a slight smell of sulfur. The krausen did not want to settle down, even after 2 weeks, until I dropped the temp to 50, even though the FG was maintaining a steady reading.

After a week, I tasted the beer, and it tasted good, except had an awful band-aid aftertaste. I waited another week thinking it might clean up a bit, and still had the same flavor. When I dropped the temp to 50 for a few days, it got better, but still has that flavor to it.

Researching into this, I found posts mentioning the following potential causes of phenols that taste like band-aids:

• Chlorine - I don't think this was the cause of my off flavor, I filtered my tap water, and have never had problems with this off-flavor even when I dont filter.
• Brett Infection - There are no visible signs of infection, and I'm not sure how to tell if this could be the cause. I have never had an infection and am quite OCD about sanitation, so don't think this is the cause either.
• Belgian Yeasts at too high of a temp - I didn't find much mention of this happening to people, but did find a post or two saying this. I'm thinking this could potentially be my problem, even though I feel like 68-71 is not too high of a fermentation temp for a belgian yeast.

I wound up emailing Allagash to ask, and this was a snippet from their response:

Thanks for the interest and always glad to hear from someone who enjoys brewing! Unfortunately, your problem was probably just tired yeast, after going through a full fermentation and sitting in the bottle, it just wasn't going to make the best crop. If you're looking for a yeast that's similar, we've seen good results with Fermentis T58 dry yeast (http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFBT58.pdf).

They didn't answer my question directly, as many breweries love skirting around answers, so I thought I would provide everyone here with the info I have come up with.

I am going to try lagering the beer for a while and hope that the flavor fades enough for it to be drinkable. I was making this for a party at work in a couple months, so I guess I will have to try again with a commercial yeast until I can experiment more with the Allagash yeast.

My inclination is that the problem is really the temperature, and not what Allagash responded with. The starter tasted really good with no off flavors, which it would have fermented at room temp (60ish).

 

[Bassaholic]

Sorry to hear that you didn't get great results from harvesting. I would think the white would be a good candidate for harvesting since it's low OG/SRM. If you decide to rebrew in the future you could give the northeast abbey strain from yeastbay a try. http://www.theyeastbay.com/brewers-yeast-products/northeastern-abbey
I'm not sure if it's from Allagash or Ommegang, but I have a feeling it's Allagash. I made a wit a few days ago with this strain so I can let you know how it compares.

 

[stpug]

I've harvested Allagash yeast from a White and used it on two brews recently. During my readings I found that A) Allagash yeast is a blend of about 4 yeasts, and B) this sucker does not like to be kept restrained in terms of ferm temp. Pitch coolish and let it raise to whatever it goes to - at least 70F if not 72-80F - and don't let it cool down once you get there.

My first attempt (a wit) with it was to pitch cool and let it get up to 68ish, which I did, but I had to manually keep it from getting higher. To my disappointment, keeping it restrained caused it to stop working at about 65% apparent attenuation - additionally, it left enough sulfur in the beer to be unwelcoming. I know this yeast is capable of 80+% AA so this was something I needed to figure out. It was kegged and I was drinking it in hopes that the sulfur would fade - it did not. I pulled the keg and vented the co2 for a few days; after which, I pushed co2 through the liquid side to hopefully volatilize the sulfur compounds and vent them; after which, I gave a dozen dunks of a some sanitized copper rings to chemically "bind up" the sulfur. This keg is currently sitting and waiting to get back on tap in the next few days. I suspect the sulfur has been reduced but we'll see.

My second attempt with Allagash yeast was a belgian pale ale. This time I was determined to get reasonable AA and a completely successful beer. After reading more about Allagash yeast since my first attempt, I was armed with better information on fermentation schedule. Basically, it's like most belgian strains - "If you try to stop me I'll quit working!" Additionally, Rob Tod had stated that they will pitch cool and allow the temp to climb to whatever it climbs too (~72-80F depending on circumstances). He said that they pitch cool in order to reserve some "fatty acids" to help ester formation later in the fermentation. Being a BPA, and wanting reserved ester formation, I decided to pitch mid-warm (66F) and allow the temp to raise to 70F during the first 2 days of fermentation, after which I pulled it from the fermentation chamber and brought it upstairs into 72ish room temperature for the remainder. It had about a day left of active fermentation when I brought it upstairs so it might have gotten up to about 73-74F but no higher. I gave it about 7-10 days upstairs before crash cooling and moving to a keg. I just kegged this 2 days ago but I pulled a 6 oz sample for FG testing and taste testing. There is no presence of sulfur this time around, and the AA shot up to 84%. From the sample, I get a little bit of belgian yeast character (mostly fruit, very subtle phenols), and it tastes very nice. It tasted very good for a BPA and seems to have the balance I was hoping for.

After these couple attempts, I'm better prepared for using this yeast in the future. It's not overly belgiany which is nice for many beers that you want an belgian influence but not the in-your-face fruitiness of 3787/wlp530.

Edit:
And, yes, I had the same experience as you on the stirplate - constantly wanting to come out the top even though it had 8+ inches of headspace. I had to babysit this yeast starter during the day, knocking down the krausen with a sanitized spoon, and finally pulled it from the stirplate at night. Some yeasts won't form as much of a krausen if kept more idle but the co2 will build up in solution. The next morning I carefully swirled it around off-and-on for about an hour until most of the co2 was vented, and then put it back on the stirplate. Since most of the propagation was complete, the krausen never got more than about an inch this day.

 

[aslander]

Sorry to hear that you didn't get great results from harvesting. I would think the white would be a good candidate for harvesting since it's low OG/SRM. If you decide to rebrew in the future you could give the northeast abbey strain from yeastbay a try. http://www.theyeastbay.com/brewers-yeast-products/northeastern-abbey
I'm not sure if it's from Allagash or Ommegang, but I have a feeling it's Allagash. I made a wit a few days ago with this strain so I can let you know how it compares.

Yeah keep me updated. I may give the yeast another shot and try doing some 1 gallon batches at various temperatures to see if that was part of the problem.

What temp are you fermenting at?

 

[Bassaholic]

I was fermenting at 68 and I'm about to bottle. OG was 1.050 and the SG was 1.011. I'll have to compare with Allagash and Ommegang side by side after it's carbed. So far it tastes delicious.

Also I just started building up some yeast from Allagash's new saison. So far I've stepped it up twice and I've had a good amount of growth. I'm planning on doing a Brett saison so I won't have results in that for quite a while.

 

[aslander]

I was fermenting at 68 and I'm about to bottle. OG was 1.050 and the SG was 1.011. I'll have to compare with Allagash and Ommegang side by side after it's carbed. So far it tastes delicious.

Also I just started building up some yeast from Allagash's new saison. So far I've stepped it up twice and I've had a good amount of growth. I'm planning on doing a Brett saison so I won't have results in that for quite a while.

Interesting that yours worked out at the same temperature. I couldn't figure this one out. I wound up dumping 6 gallons of beer because the flavor wouldn't go away even with time, crash cooling, burping the keg, etc.

I am rebrewing this witbier again tonight. Instead of risking a huge batch with the Allagash yeast again, I bought WLP400 to do the main batch. I will be making an extra gallon of wort for the Allagash yeast to ferment separately. I will post the results in a couple weeks.

 

[brianwaynemiller]

Apologies for bringing up an old thread, but this is exactly what I'm currently trying to do. (Visited Allagash recently and loved their House Beer; concocting a BPA with that as an inspiration.)

aslander and stpug, When you harvested, how long did it take your starter to take off? I have a 1000ml starter sitting on a stir plate right now. When I left for work this morning, it was about 9 hours in and showed no signs of krausen; I hope I don't have a sticky and shorted out stir plate when I get home (even though it's in a 2000ml flask).

FWIW, this is my first attempt at harvesting yeast; I think I got a good sample out of 4 bottles, and was overly cautious with sanitation and freshness - bought this cold, was bottled less than a month ago.

Anyway, aslander, how did your second shot at the witbier with Allagash yeast turn out? And how did it compare to the WLP400?

 

[stpug]

aslander and stpug, When you harvested, how long did it take your starter to take off? I have a 1000ml starter sitting on a stir plate right now. When I left for work this morning, it was about 9 hours in and showed no signs of krausen; I hope I don't have a sticky and shorted out stir plate when I get home (even though it's in a 2000ml flask).

FWIW, this is my first attempt at harvesting yeast; I think I got a good sample out of 4 bottles, and was overly cautious with sanitation and freshness - bought this cold, was bottled less than a month ago.

Building yeast stock up from bottle dregs can take a bit of time due to the circumstances the yeast has been through. I don't recall exactly how long Allagash yeast took to get going on my stir plate but most yeast I've built from bottles has been in the 3-4 day range to really get going. As long as your process was sanitary then there really shouldn't be any problems getting something useful from it. The second step goes really fast - a day maybe.

Edit: This is one of the yeasts I wish I had used some fermcap-s on to control the krausen

 

[brianwaynemiller]

Building yeast stock up from bottle dregs can take a bit of time due to the circumstances the yeast has been through. I don't recall exactly how long Allagash yeast took to get going on my stir plate but most yeast I've built from bottles has been in the 3-4 day range to really get going. As long as your process was sanitary then there really shouldn't be any problems getting something useful from it. The second step goes really fast - a day maybe.

Edit: This is one of the yeasts I wish I had used some fermcap-s on to control the krausen

YES, good call on the Fermcap. Tossed a drop in there and letting it ride. Got about 3/4" of krausen 20 or so hours in, so it appears there was some viable yeast in there. Hooray!

 

[stpug]

Sounds like it should be successful

 

[aslander]

To be honest, I wasn't impressed with either yeast. I made a few batches using both strains and never had a.good result. I was never able to get that Allagash flavor. I've had better luck with WLP500 and Saison yeasts. I still have slants of both strains but am hesitant to try them again.

 

[puyallupbrewing]

I'm currently working on a batch of allagash yeast and north eastern Abby side by side. Will know in three weeks. Wanted to add that the allagash taste is not only their yeast but hops and spice additions. I would get a copy of brewing with wheat. The section on allagash is very helpful on hops temps and times. I will post on this soon cheers.

 

[m00ps]

I'm currently working on a batch of allagash yeast and north eastern Abby side by side. Will know in three weeks. Wanted to add that the allagash taste is not only their yeast but hops and spice additions. I would get a copy of brewing with wheat. The section on allagash is very helpful on hops temps and times. I will post on this soon cheers.

any results on this? Ive always wondered which "Northeast" maker fo Belgian beers that is on the Yeast Bay

 

[puyallupbrewing]

Well side by side I can say it is not allagash. The yeast bay northeastern Abby was a bit sweeter and less funky. Allagash has a more pronounced yeast character. I will keep on trying different strains until I find a match.

 

[m00ps]

its gotta be ommegang then...right? I mean those were the only two I thought it could be based on the yeast bay description
"This yeast was isolated from a beer crafted by a well-known producer of Belgian-style ales in the Northeastern United States. This yeast produces a very mild spiciness and earthy flavor and aroma which is complemented by a subtle but magnificent array of fruity esters, including pear and light citrus fruit.
The brewery from which this strain was isolated uses it in a very versatile manner across an array of Belgian styles. We prefer using this yeast for any and all light Belgian beers, including Wit, Belgian Pale and Belgian Blond, in addition to any experimental fruit beers in which a more unique and robust flavor and aroma profile is desired. Expect this yeast to produce a large, thick krausen.This yeast was isolated from a beer crafted by a well-known producer of Belgian-style ales in the Northeastern United States. This yeast produces a very mild spiciness and earthy flavor and aroma which is complemented by a subtle but magnificent array of fruity esters, including pear and light citrus fruit.
The brewery from which this strain was isolated uses it in a very versatile manner across an array of Belgian styles. We prefer using this yeast for any and all light Belgian beers, including Wit, Belgian Pale and Belgian Blond, in addition to any experimental fruit beers in which a more unique and robust flavor and aroma profile is desired. Expect this yeast to produce a large, thick krausen."

I figured it wouldve been allagash since they mention "wit" first and say its best in paler styles. Allagash doesnt seem to dabble as much in darker beers

 

[puyallupbrewing]

It is omegang with out a doubt. Allagash has more of a spice bite to it. Think I'm going to try some mixed yeast see if I can't replicate the allagash character.