all rice batch

[hipturn]

All:

Thank you for helping me successfully brew an all millet pale ale. The beer turned out great thanks to this forum and thanks to glutardedChris in particular. Thank you.

I am thinking about brewing an all rice lager I've brewed many lagers so I have a good grasp of recipe and general techniques shared with barley brewing. My questions are:

1)best enzymes to use?
2)milling techniques for Eckert grains
3) mashing schedules
4) advice of the "i wish I would have known" variety

thanks!

 

[ricemaltster]

Hipturn,

I am a fairly recent convert to added enzymes. The folks on this forum are way ahead of me as I follow. That said, I have been having good success with Termamyl as alpha amylase and AMG-300L as beta amylase. I am going to try a number of enzymes to find what works for me. I hope the other brewers chime in on what has been working for them. I have moved to a single temperature infusion at 70C for good gelatinization of the starch and adding the alpha amylase then after the mash cools adding the beta amylase. I am getting good conversion in a couple hours (maybe less). I let the wort be unheated for awhile in the kettle to be sure there is no residual starch.
Rice is smaller than barley but bigger than millet. Seems to me mills vary enough that I am concerned about stating a mill setting. I suggest similar crush to barley while expecting a closer gap setting.
Good luck with your next brew!
Ricemaltster

 

[Legume]

Ricemaltsters explanation was spot on.
my only addition is that you can start your mash warmer than 70 C (158 F) if you want (Termamyl is most active around 180F, and is not denatured untill you boil).
My first rest is at 170 to 180 F.

If you mash too long at these high temperatures, you risk tanin extraction; but your efficiency goes WAY up. I am sure there is a sweet spot for time and temperature to maximize efficiency and minimize tanin extraction, but I dont know where it is yet.

I have had a couple of batches with slight tannin issues (still quite drinkable) and am planning on lowering my jelitinization rest temp from 180 to 170 F for my next batch. I have had batches rested at 185 F turn out bueatiflly, I immagine tannin extraction is a function of time, temp, pH, and specific gravity...to many variables for me, so I will just lower my temp by 10 degrees and hope for the best.

After doing a rest at 170 F, I drop the temperature (with ice) to 140 F and do a rest with a Beta amylase. The temp you use should depend on whitch Beta amylase you use, they have diffrent optimum temperatures.

AMG300 is a very agressive beta amylase. It should work well, but you might keep the sachrification rest short if you use it, or risk a very dry beer.

 

[hipturn]

thx! for the great advice guys!!!!!

What is the best source for enzymes? Glutarded-Chris pointed me to E.C. Kraus for the diatase I used (in abundance) for the all grain millet. I see that Adventures in Homebrewing carries both Termamyl (alpha amylase) and AMG-300L (beta amylase). I presume these guys are a good place to start? I got my chinese mill from these guys. Works as advertised.

And if anyone has any advice on gap and milling for rice please let me know!

 

[Legume]

Diastase should work fine for your sacrification rest...I would use whatever temperature worked for you on the millet batch.

 

[Osedax]

Rice is a pain to mill. I would say a gap of about .025" would be fine. Honestly, .035" is good with proper enzymes.

I have moved away from all one type of malt brews. I mix millet and rice. Eckert makes great speciality malts so I recommend experimenting with all of them.

Not sure on mashing schedule, but long and high is a good bet. My normal is 163F for 15 minutes then normal sacc temps for an hour or more. Works great with the right enzyme blend.

Happy brewing!

 

[hipturn]

Osedax:

Can you elaborate on why you aren't brewing an all-rice beer?

I am having some allergies to millet as well as barley and wheat.

So, I am thinking about going to 100% rice as a last-ditch effort.

Besides low diastatic power, is there a disadvantage to pale rice malt?

Thanks!

 

[Legume]

I dont have experience with all rice-all grain beers, but have done some very nice all rice partial mash beers. If your goal is to not use any millet, this could be a good starting point.

Do a mini mash with Termamyl and 5ish lbs of Eckert rice specialty malt, mash at 170 to 180 for 1 to 2 hours. You do not need a beta amylase for this protocol, the Termamyl is enough.
Sparge into your brewpot, add 6ish lbs of rice syrup extract...boil as usual.

The rice syrup extract ferments out a bit dry on its own, the mini mash (with alpha amylase only) will provide flavor and body(dextrins) to compensate.

Its easy, delicious, and 100% rice.

you can get rice syrup and Termamyl at Anapolis Homebrew.

 

[hipturn]

Ok. Thanks everyone. I've decided on my brew strategy for an all rice batch.

since my millet pale ale nearly replicated my old barley beer in flavor, color, and all around awesomeness, I'm going to try to replicate my Vienna Lager.

I've ordered the Termamyl from Annapolis. While there I noticed that their private label rice syrup was significantly cheaper than the Breiss repackaged by others (see e.g. Gluten Free Home Brewing). $18.60 for 6 lbs vs. $30.79.

Question: Anyone have any experience with Annapolis private label rice syrup vs. Breiss sold by others?

 

[hipturn]

Mash 2 hours at 180 – 170F with Termamyl:

biscuit rice malt - 5 lb (ekbrm)
James' Brown rice malt - 2 lb (ekjbrm#2)
biscuit rice malt - 2 lb (ekbrm#2)

Add:

6 lbs generic brown rice syrup (Annapolis home brew)
dark Belgian candi sugar - 1 lb
2 oz hallertau

1 x whirlfloc tablet

1 x saflager s-23 (1156-1)

 

[Osedax]

Osedax:

Can you elaborate on why you aren't brewing an all-rice beer?

I am having some allergies to millet as well as barley and wheat.

So, I am thinking about going to 100% rice as a last-ditch effort.

Besides low diastatic power, is there a disadvantage to pale rice malt?

Thanks!

Millet just has better extraction and diastic power. Also, it is a tastier and more "filling" base malt. Rice is a little thin on the flavor and body.

 

[Legume]

I have used the Anapolis homebrew rice syurp many times.
It ferments out very dry, and does not provide much flavor (not malty, but no off flavors).
It does seem to make for a cloudy beer, but I have never been bothered by that or taken steps to corect it.

It looks like your recipe uses 9 lbs of rice malt in your mash.
This will probably result in a very sweet (high final gravity) beer.
Termamyl has only a amylase activity, so your mash will produce almost 100% of non-fermentable dextrines.
These dextrines are perfect to complement the overly fermentable rice syrup, but at 9 lbs of grain I think you will end up with a syrupy sweet beer.

My partial mash beers using this method that used 5 lbs of malt were quite malty and rich.

 

[hipturn]

gotcha.

I had such poor efficency with millet, that I presumed the same for rice. I'll back off of the grain bill; that'll make an easier brew day too. Thanks for the advice.

h.