All grain shopping list- help me out

[LandoCalrissian]

I'm not handy enough to build a mill or a sculpture or…pretty much anything.

I'm trying to put together a list of everything I will need, so that I can (hopefully) buy it all in one shot, and enjoy it for a while, without worrying about what i need next.

Kegging is, for now, out of the question. Having room just for this stuff is going to be pushing my luck, at the moment, and if I bring up kegging, my wife gives me those eyes, I'm sure you know what I mean.

Let me know anything you think is a bad idea, or anything I'm forgetting, or whatever. Thanks.

brew sculpture with two burners and a shelf
three 15 gal kettles with one false bottom and one strainer
at least 2, preferably 4 glass carboys
autosiphon
bottle, midwest seems to have brown pop-tops for about half price, which is very appealing
silicon tubing
gravity bottle filler
this CFC
jet bottle washer
carboy brush
iodophor, and i think I can use the oxy-clean I already have, right?

Am I going to wish I had airlocks? they see like a PITA, and something I can do fairly well without. A blow-off tube? Anything else?

Grain mill and refractometer are on the list, too, but not as *must have*

 

[LandoCalrissian]

damn, I probably should have posted this in the Beginner's forum, instead of here.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

I'm kind of confused and we may need a little bit of back story. Have you brewed all ready or are you looking to get into it and are you considering starting with all-grain?

It is hard to really give any suggestions as I'm not sure what equipment you already have so I'll save those comments until we get some more info.

The one piece of advice I do have is that I hate those brass bottle sprayers. I feel like every time I put a bottle on it I'm smacking the pipes in my house with a sledge hammer. I used mine for a few very dirty Grolsch bottles but I hate it and it really didn't do that much any ways. They do make a black plastic bottle sprayer that looks very similar and is suppose to be easier on your water pipes. Just my opinion though as I know a lot of people like the brass one.

 

[The Pol]

$900 for a gravity brew tree...
$1000 for kettles...

It really is too bad that you are not DIY savvy, you could spend less than that and build a completely electric temperature controlled RIMS or HERMS rig complete with pumps, PIDs and SSRs.

As asked before, what experience do you have brewing? This is A LOT of dough, for pretty simplistic equipment, if you are just getting into brewing.

Get airlocks, get a blow off tube as well. Oxyclean is great for cleaning.

I dunno, this just seems like a TON of dough for what you are getting... you are buying probably the most overpriced and unnecessary items out there IMHO

 

[LandoCalrissian]

I haven't started brewing, yet. I don't especially want to ease into things with extract brewing, or partial grain. I don't want to spark up an argument, but I do prefer stainless steel and glass to plastic an aluminum, and I prefer them enough to pay for the difference.

I know I could break this up. I could buy a single burner and use it for my hot water and my HLT, save a fortune over this set up. But right now I have an offer to help out with the up-front investment with a gift from a family member. Before that offer was made, my shopping list was much more gradual, but this should allow me to get everything I need and "future proof" things a bit.

We do have 240 current wired in, so if someone would rather suggest electric, I am receptive to that, but I am honestly terrified of cooking myself with it.

The one piece of advice I do have is that I hate those brass bottle sprayers. I feel like every time I put a bottle on it I'm smacking the pipes in my house with a sledge hammer. I used mine for a few very dirty Grolsch bottles but I hate it and it really didn't do that much any ways. They do make a black plastic bottle sprayer that looks very similar and is suppose to be easier on your water pipes. Just my opinion though as I know a lot of people like the brass one.

Cool, thanks. Without starting a plastics debate, I do prefer to not use them when I don't have to, so I was planning on picking up the brass one first. The plastic one is only a few bucks, so it shouldn't be a huge deal to grab later.

$900 for a gravity brew tree... $1000 for kettles... It really is too bad that you are not DIY savvy, you could spend less than that and build a completely electric temperature controlled RIMS or HERMS rig complete with pumps, PIDs and SSRs.

Yeah, I know. It's sad. But if I tried to build that stuff myself, I would probably end up burning the house down or electrocuting myself. Or doing the second and then the first.

As far as I can tell, all of this stuff is really high quality, even if the price is high, so I'm looking at it as an investment. Also, the portability of the brew-tree will be a huge advantage over the table-type brew sculptures, when we move in a year or two. Trust me, if I were as handy as you are, this thread would be in DIY

I dunno, this just seems like a TON of dough for what you are getting... you are buying probably the most overpriced and unnecessary items out there IMHO

If you have any specific recommendations, I am eager to hear them.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[elkdog]

Understanding that you don't like plastics, I'd still recommend Better Bottles. The horror stories of injuries from broken glass carboys are pretty nasty. Glass doesn't have to be dangerous if you're careful, but I personally consider the Better Bottles to be an upgrade. Others disagree, and there are some threads about this. I know I make really good beer in Better Bottles.

You only need silicon tubing for hot liquid. Save money on your siphon tube or bottling tube. Really. No need for silicon if the stuff going through it isn't hot. If you buy it from a homebrew shop, it's food grade, and that's what's important for cooled wort/beer.

Get a hydrometer. This brew rig without one is like a Porsche without a speedometer.

Lastly, I wouldn't bother buying a brew sculpture or fancy kettles before I had a surefire way to control fermentation temps. A fridge with a temp control is pretty optimum. If you wanna go whole hog, you're going to make considerably better beer once you control those temps. A much bigger difference than a nice kettle or cfc.

Good luck, and nice screen name.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

I think that is a more than good start to an AG brewing approach. There are always going to be incidental items you will need like wine thief, carboy caps, bottling buckets (i know plastic), magnetic stirrer, pyrex flasks, stir bars, graduated cylinders, digital scales, fermentation chamber, bottle caps, blah blah blah. There are a bunch of things but you have most of the major items as far as I can tell.

The only way to really tell what you personally are going to need is to brew and discover it on your own. This is simply because everybody does things different and everyone has a different setup that require different equipment and tools. I know its a cop out answer but it's the truth.

 

[LandoCalrissian]

Understanding that you don't like plastics, I'd still recommend Better Bottles. The horror stories of injuries from broken glass carboys are pretty nasty. Glass doesn't have to be dangerous if you're careful, but I personally consider the Better Bottles to be an upgrade. Others disagree, and there are some threads about this. I know I make really good beer in Better Bottles.

You only need silicon tubing for hot liquid. Save money on your siphon tube or bottling tube. Really. No need for silicon if the stuff going through it isn't hot. If you buy it from a homebrew shop, it's food grade, and that's what's important for cooled wort/beer.

Get a hydrometer. This brew rig without one is like a Porsche without a speedometer.

Lastly, I wouldn't bother buying a brew sculpture or fancy kettles before I had a surefire way to control fermentation temps. A fridge with a temp control is pretty optimum. If you wanna go whole hog, you're going to make considerably better beer once you control those temps. A much bigger difference than a nice kettle or cfc.

Good luck, and nice screen name.

Thanks for all the advice. A hydrometer is actually on my list, I just forgot to mention it here.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

You only need silicon tubing for hot liquid. Save money on your siphon tube or bottling tube. Really. No need for silicon if the stuff going through it isn't hot. If you buy it from a homebrew shop, it's food grade, and that's what's important for cooled wort/beer.

Most people do use silicone tubing for hot wort transfers primarily but the other advantage of it is that it can be boiled and therefore almost sterilized rather than just sanitized. If you get an infected batch this can become a good way to relax your mind when it comes time for your next brew. I will eventually use silicone tubing for all of my needs when finances become less of an issue (ie when I get a job, just took my certification exam today).

 

[Duster72]

I have to agree with some of these guys. While that is certainly a system full of some nice stuff, it's not one I would want to brew on.

I think you would be better served to find a good local homebrew shop and brew a couple of extract batches so you know what you're doing before buying this stuff.

I would also recommend listening to some brewing network podcasts. Do a search over there for "equipment upgrades." There's a show with the guy who owns morebeer and he goes over a lot of this higher-end stuff.

There's a lot of other stuff you will need to brew good batches. You really need a stirplate, Erlenmeyer flask, temperature controlled fermentation, etc. You might also figure out that the gravity-fed brewstand is rather limiting. You couldn't do a whirlpool immersion chiller, for example.

But yeah, that's nice stuff. I am just not sure you'll be happy with it in the long run.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I think diving in all the way is the way to do it. You will be happier brewing and make better beer from the get go. You will also avoid all the wasteful spending that many brewers like me have done because of iterative equipment upgrades.

Please ready through a couple of my blog entries on AG rigs you may get some ideas there:

http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Boerderij_Kabouter/

Basically, I think Blichmann's stuff is great. The top tier looks fine if you want a gravity system. I really prefer the pumped single tier arrangement or a pyramid where the MLT drains into the BK.

I REALLY disagree with the "go extract first buy some cheap equipment" crowd. Buy right, buy it once. You seem pretty sure you will be into the hobby, so why frustrate yourself with less than what you really want?

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Also, here are a few questions that will really help us answer your needs better:

1. What is your budget?
2. Do you have any DIY skills or tools?
3. Do you know anyone with DIY skills?
4. Can you find a local fab shop to do DIY for you?
5. What size batches would you like to produce?
6. What space limitations do you have? How big of an area can you dedicate to your brewery?

Thanks. I have several build sheet compiled in an excel sheet and will email it to you if you PM me you email addy. Many people have found it useful.

 

[OMJ]

You could save a lot getting keggles from somewhere like kegglebrewing instead of the blichmans. I think you are also going to want a march pump

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Actually the keggles are more expensive than the Blichmann's... The only way a keggle is a cheap brewing vessel is if you unlawfully keep one for the deposit price. Otherwise, they do not really make much sense IMO. I have keggles, and got them unlawfully before I found out here that it was unlawful. I am an ass but who cares. The OP does not want to do DIY so a keggle makes no sense for him.

 

[Whiskey]

If you are willing to jump in head first go for it, worst case someone will get a great craigslist buy in a few months.

However, if you are really that worried about burning down your house, electrocution etc, you should really consider buying better bottles, will you drop one? maybe not but why risk it?. Or given that you are dumping a wad of cash, go for broke and pick up a conical fermenter.

Also if you are going to go AG right away a refractometer is a must have.

Personally, I would rat hole the money for now, buy a nice 15g pot, burner, basic brewing equipment (immersion chiller, bottling bucket, racking cane, etc), get with your local brewing club and brew a few extract batches or at least watch the process, then decide if this hobby is for you, before dumping a couple grand in equipment.

Also going basic most assuredly does not mean going cheap, no one is implying that you need to buy a bunch of cheap junk to start out with, just that you may want to start small, get your process down, then dump a couple of grand on a brewstand etc.

 

[OMJ]

Actually the keggles are more expensive than the Blichmann's... The only way a keggle is a cheap brewing vessel is if you unlawfully keep one for the deposit price. Otherwise, they do not really make much sense IMO. I have keggles, and got them unlawfully before I found out here that it was unlawful. I am an ass but who cares. The OP does not want to do DIY so a keggle makes no sense for him.

If you look at the price of the keggles I linked to they are cheaper than the blichmans he linked to in his original post

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Complete Home Brewing Keggle
Item Id: KEGGLE6
Complete Home Brewing Keggle

Price
Your Price:
$399.95

Availability:
In Stock

BoilerMaker Brew Pot (15 Gal) [06272]
$368.99

Apples to apples the keggle is $30 more expensive plus you will have to ship it whereas you can likely get the Blichmann from any good LHBS for the same retails price. So with shipping you are saving about $50 going with the Blichmann plus you get a better designed kettle IMO.

If you do not want all the features, then the keggle can be cheaper, however, when you are spending the money to have the best, why would skimp on the things that will make brewing easier?

 

[OMJ]

Apples to apples the keggle is $30 more expensive plus you will have to ship it whereas you can likely get the Blichmann from any good LHBS for the same retails price. So with shipping you are saving about $50 going with the Blichmann plus you get a better designed kettle IMO.

If you do not want all the features, then the keggle can be cheaper, however, when you are spending the money to have the best, why would skimp on the things that will make brewing easier?

He would only need one of the $399 keggles why buy 3 with false bottoms? The other 2 would be $275.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Ahhhh.... I see. In that case they are cheaper, my mistake. I still think the Bling is worth it, I just think the features are very well thought out.

 

[Whiskey]

+10 for the Bling, I love mine it was well worth the cost.

 

[samc]

Enjoy the hobby. If you have the $$$$ to spend go for it and have a blast, don't let the negative comments get in your way. The Blichmann stand however is brand new and I would suggest you look for something else until it is proven in the field as a sturdy and safe system. They have a great reputation so I assume that it will be a good product but like buying a first year car I would be wary. I also prefer the single tier/pump set up so I can reach in to each kettle and see what is going on. Easier on the back as well.

Skip the glass carboys - too many horror stories, too many near drops (most recently past weekend when my neighbor almost lost one). Since you are spending the money why not get a SS conical and be done with it or go with Better Bottles.

And by your wife a nice new pair of sun glasses so you can't see the "look" she gives you when you buy all this! And when you are all done post pictures so we can all say "you suck".

 

[LandoCalrissian]

Thanks for all the replies, I have a lot of stuff to do today, but I'll post back and update later, when I get a chance.