All Grain Isn't Working Out

[Floydmeister]

Well I had this all typed up and the site determined that I needed to be logged in (which I was..) and I lost it all so this is quite a bit condensed but hopefully its enough info this go around. Anyways here goes.

I recently started all grain brewing and it hasn't been working out. I tried a Dark Mild ale with an OG of 1.035 that was suppose to reach 1.008 and it stopped dead at 1.020. The result was an overly sweet beer with 2% alcohol and it's just hard to drink. I always thought I made some decent extract brews so I figured all grain would be a good way to expand my recipes. After the mild I figured I would try something simple and see if I can make it turn out.

I decided on this:
SMaSH Blonde?
10lbs Marris Otter
1oz** Northern Brewer
US-05

Here's my process.

*Before Brew Day
1. Grain milled at LHBS
2. 2 Liter yeast starter with 2 cups xl DME (I realize now that I probably shouldn't do a starter with dry yeast, I've always used liquid

prior)

*Brew Day
1. Clean things with PBW, sanitize things with StarSan
2. Calibrate MW102 pH Meter at 4 & 7
3. Something something relax and have a home brew

*Mashing
(I use two 5 gallon kettles for all grain, so 5 lbs of grain per kettle, split mash split boil combine in the fermenter)
1. Heat tap water to strike temp on electric range
2. Calculate how much Phosphoric Acid (10%) I need to hit my target pH (5.2), add it and cross my fingers
3. Remove from heat and add muslin bag as well as grain, confirm that I hit my target mash temp (149*F in this case)
4. Pull a sample and check pH, add more acid if needed
5. Verify pH is good, let it sit for an hour
6. Squeeze grain bags with tongs to drain them into the kettle

*Boiling
1. Start heating the kettle to a rolling boil
2. Add tap water until I reach 3.5-4.0gal per kettle (shooting to boil down to 2.75gal x 2 = 5.5gal)
3. Hop additions, irish moss at 15min, yeast nutrient
4. With 15min left, instert my immersion chiller

*Cooling
1. Fill sink with cold water, place kettle in the water and start the immersion chiller
2. When chiller runoff is no longer scalding, recirculate it into the sink water (overflows into another sink which has a drain)
3. When I reach under 70*F (takes like 10-15min) dump wort through strainer into fermenter (7.8gal plastic bucket)
4. Take OG and pitch yeast

*Fermentation
1. Place bucket in 65*F ambient basement
2. 2 weeks later take a hydro sample, taste it
3. When hydro sample is table, wait until its clear and then keg

*Kegging
1. 30psi to seal, sit for a day
2. Serving pressure (around 10psi or so)

So I brewed this beer on July 23. After 2 weeks in the fermenter it was good to go and relatively clear. I had an OG of 1.051 and an FG of 1.013***. The beer is very clear and looks great. I kegged it and it's been in the keg for about a week. However the hydro samples were kinda funky, peachy? When I try it out of the keg I'm tasting nothing but apples. I was hoping to taste mostly the grain since I'm only using an ounce of bittering hops and that's all.

I got a fermentation freezer set up now and a water filter for my tap water to rule those out. I started up a simple 50/50 hefeweizen with
3068 and it's been in the fermenter at 62*F for a week. I tried a hydro sample of that and THAT tastes like apples. The hefeweizen is also
in a brand new fermenter.

Am I mad? What's going on here.

In my experience so far, off flavors tend to stick around for the life of the beer. How are these guys turning around flawless beers in a week or two when kegging?

Anyways, any help would be great.

Thanks!

 

[The_Bishop]

How are you measuring your FG? Can't use a refractometer.

What thermometer? Are you *sure* it's accurate?

The 'apples' flavor, is it green apples? That would be acetaldehyde. This is a sign of 'young' beer, usually taken off the yeast too quickly. However, it an be minimized by pitching the right amount of yeast and properly aerating the wort, which would reduce the time for it to mature.

 

[Floydmeister]

How are you measuring your FG? Can't use a refractometer.

What thermometer? Are you *sure* it's accurate?

The 'apples' flavor, is it green apples? That would be acetaldehyde. This is a sign of 'young' beer, usually taken off the yeast too quickly. However, it an be minimized by pitching the right amount of yeast and properly aerating the wort, which would reduce the time for it to mature.

Not sure I understand the "Can't use a refractometer". I'm using a floating hydrometer.

The thermometer is a Thermowerks Thermapen. It's digital and reads fairly quickly. I had been using a floaty but got the thermapen after my mild under-attenuated.

As far as it being "green apples" I would say so. It was at a stable FG for 3 days and fairly clear. Do I need to bump the temp for a few days or something before racking? Any chance it will finish in the keg or is it done for?

 

[Sourz4life]

You can defiantly use a refractometer. Just need to have the SG and use a calculator that offsets for the presence of alcohol. Also what yeast did you use. Generally a stall in fermentation means something is wrong with the yeasts environment.

 

[oujens]

How are you aerating your wort? I didn't you specify other than dumping through a strainer. Any chance you have a spare hydrometer to confirm your reading? I once had a cracked hydrometer that was giving me false readings. I didn't know for 2 brews until the light hit it just right. Just about threw all my gear in the dumpster at that point. Thank god I didn't.

 

[Floydmeister]

You can defiantly use a refractometer. Just need to have the SG and use a calculator that offsets for the presence of alcohol. Also what yeast did you use. Generally a stall in fermentation means something is wrong with the yeasts environment.

The yeast is Fermentis Safale US-05.

How are you aerating your wort? I didn't you specify other than dumping through a strainer. Any chance you have a spare hydrometer to confirm your reading? I once had a cracked hydrometer that was giving me false readings. I didn't know for 2 brews until the light hit it just right. Just about threw all my gear in the dumpster at that point. Thank god I didn't.

That's all I did for aeration was dump it through a strainer. Didn't think about the hydrometer being bad because I've been hitting my calculated OG's. I'll get another one though and see if it reads any different for future brews.

 

[BeardedBrews]

The yeast is Fermentis Safale US-05.



That's all I did for aeration was dump it through a strainer. Didn't think about the hydrometer being bad because I've been hitting my calculated OG's. I'll get another one though and see if it reads any different for future brews.

Don't buy another one, just put the one you have in a tube of tap water. If it reads 1.011 you've got a problem, but I doubt that's the case.

1.031 is definitely an early (incomplete) stop for US-05, which makes sense given the tart apple flavors too. I found that the floor in my basement is a very different temperature than the air. It is possible that your wort is actually getting colder than you think (<60F), my experience with US-05 is that I pick up a peachy tartness when I ferment too cold.

What you do next is up to you and how much energy you want to put in:

1. Brew again, treat the yeast the same way, aerate the same way with the strainer, and ferment in the basement but set the bucket up on a shelf or tupperware or something. That would pin down the problem to temperature.

2. Brew again, pitch 1 or 2 packets of dry US-05 straight into your bucket after you've shaken the hell out of it. Put the bucket in the same place you did this last batch. This would point to a yeast starter problem.

3. Fresh Start - brew again and pitch 1 or 2 packets of dry US-05 straight into your bucket after you've shaken the hell out of it. Put the bucket upstairs if you have somewhere that will stay between 65 and 80F. US-05 can tolerate warmer than the "recommended" temperatures and as an up side you will finish significantly faster.

 

[Floydmeister]

1.031 is definitely an early (incomplete) stop for US-05

WHOOPS! I fixed that. I finished at 1.013 which seemed very reasonable. That was an absolute typo.

 

[Floydmeister]

Don't buy another one, just put the one you have in a tube of tap water. If it reads 1.011 you've got a problem, but I doubt that's the case.

1.031 is definitely an early (incomplete) stop for US-05, which makes sense given the tart apple flavors too. I found that the floor in my basement is a very different temperature than the air. It is possible that your wort is actually getting colder than you think (<60F), my experience with US-05 is that I pick up a peachy tartness when I ferment too cold.

What you do next is up to you and how much energy you want to put in:

1. Brew again, treat the yeast the same way, aerate the same way with the strainer, and ferment in the basement but set the bucket up on a shelf or tupperware or something. That would pin down the problem to temperature.

2. Brew again, pitch 1 or 2 packets of dry US-05 straight into your bucket after you've shaken the hell out of it. Put the bucket in the same place you did this last batch. This would point to a yeast starter problem.

3. Fresh Start - brew again and pitch 1 or 2 packets of dry US-05 straight into your bucket after you've shaken the hell out of it. Put the bucket upstairs if you have somewhere that will stay between 65 and 80F. US-05 can tolerate warmer than the "recommended" temperatures and as an up side you will finish significantly faster.

It really can give an off flavor from being too cold? Wow, and here I was thinking it was getting up in the 70's during the first few days because my ambient was only 65*F. I have a temp controlled freezer now though which I will use when I brew this again. I really don't want to taste any fruit in this beer. I was hoping to end up with a "hey this is what marris otter tastes like" beer, if that makes sense. What would I shoot for temp wise? I was thinking colder = cleaner.

 

[BeardedBrews]

WHOOPS! I fixed that. I finished at 1.013 which seemed very reasonable. That was an absolute typo.

I'm guessing your hops addition was lower than 1 lb too

Ok, new approach options:

1. Over-Carbonated - Pour 1/3 of a pint back and forth between two glasses for a while. If it tastes better the more you do this, then cut back the pressure on your keg. There is a sticky in kegging forum for how to reduce carbonation.

2. Poor Ion Levels - Get a small pack of CaCl from your HBS ($1.50). Dissolve one or two small chunks in your beer and see if it's better. If not, dissolve a few more.

3. Crowd Source - Bottle up a few bottles from your tap and take them to a brew club meeting. Look pathetic and ask for help, any club worth its salt will be all over you with advice. If you feel guilty bring a couple bottles of Westvleteren 12 or Zombie Dust, they'll forgive you.

 

[Sourz4life]

The temp of course matters on the yeast you use. But for ales I go on the cooler side of 66. Depending on the yeast I'll leave it at about 70 for the first 24-48 hours to help the yeast get started. Colder doesn't really mean cleaner, people just associate that with lager strains and try to do it in ales to often when its not always needed. But yea, it could be they it doesn't have an oxygen but to be honest if its under 1.070 OG then you shouldn't need to go higher then just using your method. You can get by with like 2-4 PPM oxygen in a lower gravity brew, but have to go to 8-12 when going for a higher OG. I am for 8 ppm for most of my ales. So it sounds like its either, equipment issue like your hydrometer, major PH issues, oxygen issues, or temp issues. Its hard to nail it down of course without doing a full analysis of everything at certain stages of the brew process.

 

[Peruvian802]

If you're getting acetaldehyde (green apple) it may help to keep the beer on the yeast longer. Instead of 2 weeks, try 3 weeks (or 4).

 

[BeardedBrews]

It really can give an off flavor from being too cold? Wow, and here I was thinking it was getting up in the 70's during the first few days because my ambient was only 65*F. I have a temp controlled freezer now though which I will use when I brew this again. I really don't want to taste any fruit in this beer. I was hoping to end up with a "hey this is what marris otter tastes like" beer, if that makes sense. What would I shoot for temp wise? I was thinking colder = cleaner.

If you're in a chamber, I'd pitch at 66 and switch to 74 after 3-5 days if I'm in a hurry, 7-10 if I've got time.

 

[Sourz4life]

If you're getting acetaldehyde (green apple) it may help to keep the beer on the yeast longer. Instead of 2 weeks, try 3 weeks (or 4).

+1 on this as well. Yeast creates diacetyl which can also attribute to some of the "green beer" flavor. The yeast will clean that up by itself but takes some time after fermentation.

 

[Floydmeister]

I'm guessing your hops addition was lower than 1 lb too

Ok, new approach options:

1. Over-Carbonated - Pour 1/3 of a pint back and forth between two glasses for a while. If it tastes better the more you do this, then cut back the pressure on your keg. There is a sticky in kegging forum for how to reduce carbonation.

2. Poor Ion Levels - Get a small pack of CaCl from your HBS ($1.50). Dissolve one or two small chunks in your beer and see if it's better. If not, dissolve a few more.

3. Crowd Source - Bottle up a few bottles from your tap and take them to a brew club meeting. Look pathetic and ask for help, any club worth its salt will be all over you with advice. If you feel guilty bring a couple bottles of Westvleteren 12 or Zombie Dust, they'll forgive you.

Wow, that 1lb hop addition must be what im tasting! LOL I'm a mess . It was 1oz .

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll hit up the LHBS for some CaCl. I have a club meeting on Monday as well so I'll bring a small growler. The reduction of carbonation doesn't sound too hard to try either!

 

[Floydmeister]

If you're getting acetaldehyde (green apple) it may help to keep the beer on the yeast longer. Instead of 2 weeks, try 3 weeks (or 4).

Since I moved it to the keg already, is it doomed to be a green apple beer forever?

If you're in a chamber, I'd pitch at 66 and switch to 74 after 3-5 days if I'm in a hurry, 7-10 if I've got time.

Any tips on getting it down to 66? My immersion chiller seems to move reaaaally slowly once it gets the wort down to 80. Although it hits 80 fairly fast. Can I throw it in my freezer and delay pitching a bit or is that too risky? I pitched my hefeweizen at 70 and it took about 6 hours to get down to 62*F with the probe taped to the bucket and insulated with a towel.

Sounds like I need to shake the heck out of the fermenter to aerate it (or get an o2 stone?) and pitch two packs next time I make this. And then wait. Once I reach FG, should I keep sampling until there is no more green apple? Will it ever reach a good taste without carbonation? I've had a couple of beers taste amazing out of the fermenter and others were wildly different from how they were carbed.

 

[BeardedBrews]

Wow, that 1lb hop addition must be what im tasting! LOL I'm a mess . It was 1oz .

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll hit up the LHBS for some CaCl. I have a club meeting on Monday as well so I'll bring a small growler. The reduction of carbonation doesn't sound too hard to try either!

I like easy options the most, especially easy ones that don't involve me bringing bad beer to my poor club friends. (Spoiler alert to the HOPS guys on Saturday, I've got a bad one coming)

 

[UndeadFred]

I had green apple in a lager once. I am convinced it was from an under pitch. Honestly, if done correctly a starter from a dry yeast isn't going to do this. (In fact I now take that same dry yeast W34/70 and make a HUGE starter of it for my lagers). If you somehow killed off a lot of the yeast in the starter and ended up with less cells it's possible. I assume you know how to make a starter though...

So what else could be wrong: One. Two weeks? I like to get my beers six weeks minimum... on the yeast... I know you can do it faster, but maybe not for the first try?
Two. Water. I see you did the pH thing.. good.. but the chemistry could still be off. I recommend building up from RO at first so you can take that variable out.
Three.. temperature.. yeah it's possible that is was too cold. I haven't personally experienced that with US-05, but lately I've been using K-97 instead which is more tolerant of the colder end of the range, so it is possible.

But you did stress out your yeast somehow. I'd age that beer more, and if you have to maybe even repitch and get the ferment going again if the diacetyl doesn't resolve itself. If you are letting it sit, do it warm >70F.

Certainly don't give up on doing all grain. You started off more scientific than I did. Maybe I got lucky. Age that beer a bit (a month...) and I bet it will be better. Good luck.

 

[BeardedBrews]

Since I moved it to the keg already, is it doomed to be a green apple beer forever?

pH may have dropped too much for the yeast to be very happy, but try de-carbonating it a bit or adding minerals. You can do both of those to the keg while it's carbed.

Can I throw it in my freezer and delay pitching a bit or is that too risky?

This is very common, if everything is sanitized you could leave it there for days before you pitch (risk of infection increases with time).

Sounds like I need to shake the heck out of the fermenter to aerate it (or get an o2 stone?) and pitch two packs next time I make this. And then wait. Once I reach FG, should I keep sampling until there is no more green apple? Will it ever reach a good taste without carbonation? I've had a couple of beers taste amazing out of the fermenter and others were wildly different from how they were carbed.

It should taste good in the fermenter, but also different. The carbonation will change the aroma considerably, and smell is most of how we taste.

I would test less and wait more. The general consensus is that the flavor profile is pretty well locked in the first few days, after that you can ramp your temperatures up to help the yeast finish faster. US-05 is a very reliable dry yeast, 7 days at 65 and 7 days at 75 has finished every beer I've used it on. For what it's worth, I've also seen people pitch at 70, be close to FG by day 4, ramp temp up for the last 3 days, and keg on day 7.

 

[normonster]

Here's my advice.

*Aerate your wort (ignore anyone who questions the practice).
*Use distilled water for that Blonde Ale.
*When adjusting pH add only half the amount you need, test, add more small drops at a time.
*Find a way to monitor your actual fermentation temperature...65 in the basement = probably like 70 during high krausen, in the fermenter. Still s/b good for US05, but it may have gotten even higher.
*Down the road, DL Brew'n Water and learn your adjustments.

 

[Buckeye_Brewer1]

I agree with most of the advice here. I like US-05 and I get best results just rehyradating before pitching. Also do what you can to areate the wort in the fermenter. One cheap way is to pour back and forth from the bucket to boil pot a few times. My gut tells me your yeast were working extra hard and creating off flavors. Also I know it's hard to be patient but giving yeast the extra week or 2 once primary fermentation is over allows the yeast to consume some of the off flavors (secondary fermentation). You don't have to have a secondary fermenter to allow for secondary fermentation.

 

[mongoose33]

A few observations:

1. Tap water. Is it right for the brew? Mine is way too hard for most beers, so I'm using mostly RO, sometimes cut with a little of my tap water.

2. Yeast. Should be rehydrated. Safale's site doesn't indicate that you should make a starter.

3. Time in the fermenter. Lots of people here doing a little rise in temperature toward the end of active fermentation, to give the yeast more time to clean up. I've got a batch of Biermuncher's Black Pearl Porter going right now, 12 days in, just took a sample, doing everything I can not to cold crash it and keg it. I think it'll benefit from a few more days, and it won't be hurt.

4. Water. Again. You brewed something pretty close to a SMASH I did in early June, using just 11 pounds of Maris Otter and East Kent Goldings as the hops. It turned out very nice, but it needed time in the keg to lose some harshness of flavor (best I can describe it). I really needed to let it sit for 3 weeks or more in the keg before I had any reasonable expectations. I'm brewing it again at some point, but I'll exercise a little more patience with it.

I said water again, because that's been one of the biggest changes I've made. Some have said that if your water tastes good you can brew good beer. Well, not so fast. Not mine, anyway, which tastes great but isn't good for brewing.

My guess is that if you're patient with this, it'll smooth out for you. Meanwhile, get something else going!

 

[kh54s10]

I would start with different water. My water must be very good because my beers come out very nice and in 5 years I have never taken a pH reading.

I disagree with the notion that leaving the beer on the yeast for a month or more will make any difference. You only need a few days after you have reached final gravity for the yeast to clean up off flavors that are created during fermentation. I started out doing a secondary. Quit that nonsense after my second batch. I then did 3 weeks religiously. I have now cut down to 14 days or so.

I would also try to control US05 to a fermentation temperature of 64 to 68. Too cool will give apparently give a peachy flavor. I use US05 a lot. I ferment at 64 usually and do not change the temperature at all.

 

[Floydmeister]

With all this talk of water I'm on board but not sure where to start. I'm not opposed to buying distilled water for next time. Heck if it works I'll probably get an in house RO system to collect water for brewing. What minerals would I add though?

 

[Kerrbrewer]

Start by calling your water company. Ask for the following in parts per million: calcium, magnesium, sodium, chloride, sulfate and bicarbonate. Then check out the brewers friend water calculator. This will really help. I learned that I need to cut my tap water in half with distilled and add calcium chloride.

 

[normonster]

With all this talk of water I'm on board but not sure where to start. I'm not opposed to buying distilled water for next time.....

If you use RO you probably won't need to add much at all for a Blonde.

I just go buy 20 gallons of RO from the store in some carboys on brewday and use Brew'n Water to calculate mineral and acid additions. You can pick different water profiles to try and match, recipe specific. There is also a ton of info in the notes about water chemistry as it applies to brewing.

It's a nice idea to learn about water chemistry, and dudes will hate this comment, but you really only need to know as much about it as you do about the chemistry behind saccharification of grains....IE none for a lot of us...you can just mash at 150 and call it a day, bump it to 152 and get some body, drop it to 148 and dry it out....same with water additions.

 

[normonster]

Start by calling your water company. Ask for the following in parts per million: calcium, magnesium, sodium, chloride, sulfate and bicarbonate. Then check out the brewers friend water calculator. This will really help. I learned that I need to cut my tap water in half with distilled and add calcium chloride.

To achieve one profile.

If you want to achieve a different profile you'll need to cut and tweak in different ways, but your point remains - you have to know what's in your water to even begin to treat or dilute it.

 

[Kerrbrewer]

To achieve one profile.

If you want to achieve a different profile you'll need to cut and tweak in different ways, but your point remains - you have to know what's in your water to even begin to treat or dilute it.

Not so much. This water works well from pretty dark ambers all the way down to light lagers for my palate anyway. The brewers friend calculator gives targets for styles. I just have way too much bicarbonate and was getting really bad astringency from sparging. Im not trying to make european water just water that works. YMMV!

 

[ZebulonBrewer]

Just read through this. You said the beer is fine, except for the apple flavor right?

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/5-common-homebrew-flavors-fix/

Your beer may not be *ruined*. It's summertime. I assume you aren't keeping your house in the mid 60's. Why not bring the keg inside to sit in the low 70's for a few days/two weeks. Water chemistry and aeration are important, but that's not the flaw you're detecting on this beer. If you go and change your whole system between now and the next beer, you won't know what fixed it (assuming I'm right! which is no guarantee!!!). I also switched to AG recently, last November actually, and have mixed results. New kettle, new burner, new recipes (cause AG), and it's tough. baby steps. If you get distraught, do a full boil partial mash or a cider, and then return when you feel you've overpaid on extract

 

[Peruvian802]

Since I moved it to the keg already, is it doomed to be a green apple beer forever?



Any tips on getting it down to 66? My immersion chiller seems to move reaaaally slowly once it gets the wort down to 80. Although it hits 80 fairly fast. Can I throw it in my freezer and delay pitching a bit or is that too risky? I pitched my hefeweizen at 70 and it took about 6 hours to get down to 62*F with the probe taped to the bucket and insulated with a towel.

Sounds like I need to shake the heck out of the fermenter to aerate it (or get an o2 stone?) and pitch two packs next time I make this. And then wait. Once I reach FG, should I keep sampling until there is no more green apple? Will it ever reach a good taste without carbonation? I've had a couple of beers taste amazing out of the fermenter and others were wildly different from how they were carbed.

1 - nothing to do but wait to see if the beer gets any better.

2 - are you stirring with your immersion chiller? I like to create a whirlpool a few times during chilling to make sure that the warm wort is moving around the cool chiller.

3 - I know plenty of folks that don't use O2 and just aerate. I put a silicone hose on my ball valve and then have a spray aerator on the end that goes into my carboy. It seems to do a good job of aerating without having to shake around a heavy glass bottle!

 

[Kerrbrewer]

+1 on the spray aerator

 

[normonster]

...just water that works...

Nothing wrong with that man!

YMMV over time as well. If you like to design recipes with basic ingredients (which I assume you do), then the water additions, unique to your recipes and targeted to style, just become more ingredients to play with.....I think it's fun at least.

 

[55x11]

Not sure why so many people think you need to dive right into water chemistry. I would say that your symptoms - low attenuation and off flavors - are more indicative of a problem with yeast health, fermentation process and perhaps sanitation. I am not saying you should never learn about water chemistry but that's not your #1 priority. Probably not even top 5 at the moment.

Start with good healthy yeast. Use liquid if you can. Use a starter. Good sanitation and temperature control which you already have. Some patience. Read some literature and keep educating yourself.

 

[55x11]

Not sure why so many people think you need to dive right into water chemistry. I would say that your symptoms - low attenuation and off flavors - are more indicative of a problem with yeast health, fermentation process and perhaps sanitation. I am not saying you should never learn about water chemistry but that's not your #1 priority. Probably not even top 5 at the moment.

Start with good healthy yeast. Use liquid if you can. Use a starter. Good sanitation and temperature control which you already have. Some patience. Read some literature and keep educating yourself.

Let me just clarify something on the water issue. I know it's a controversial opinion perhaps, as many people disagree. but I stronglu believe the following:

1. You need to make sure you take care of the basics first - sanitation, mashing, health yeast, temp. control, fermentation issues etc. before you even start thinking about your water chemistry.

2. The reason is the "simple" solutions can be done quickly and easily and cheaply (for the most part) and will give you the biggest bang for the buck. Starting to worry about your water and blaming your water for your under-attenuated beer is just counter-productive - that's not your problem. There are so many solutions that are literally "20% or 50% improvement for a few minutes of work/research" where is water chemistry is more along the lines of "1-5% improvement for about 40-100 hours of work/research"

3. Water chemistry is somewhat complicated and takes a lot of time to figure out if you actually want to know what you are doing instead of just blindly following what some software tells you. Even for scientists like myself it's complicated mess. It's like a complex Rube-Goldberg machine where you tweak one thing and it affects 10 other things, and you must have some common sense to decide whether those changes are significant or not.

Having said all that - you should run your water through water filter to remove chlorine and other stuff. If you already do that - I believe there are about 10% of people who have terrible water and really really need to fix it ASAP. And then there are 90% of us who have semi-decent, maybe even very good water - we can still squeeze out a few percent improvement for some styles, but we will be ok if we don't.

So the crucial first step is to figure out if you are one of those 10% of if you are kind of Ok for now.


Look up your city water profile here:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/water-profiles/

Plug it into some brew software (beersmith for example), along with some "target" water profile and see how badly you are off. But in the meantime, worry about everything else (fermentation, yeast health, temp control etc.)

 

[Yeastieboy]

Don't buy another one, just put the one you have in a tube of tap water. If it reads

Get lost...

 

[ferm.adventures]

A trick for your mild that had a high FG. Add a tsp of Amylase Enzyme to your fermenter. It may help break down your wort further to ferment it out a bit more.

 

[ferm.adventures]

On your other issues, it sounds like fermentation problems. I would make sure you pitch plenty of healthy active yeast. If using dry, rehydrate in water, not wort. Ensure that your wort is aerated well.

For my Ales, I use 1056 (us-05) exclusively in stir plate starters. Washing yeast makes liquid yeast cheap. I ferment at 65 with a 2 stage temp controller - with the probe in a thermowell. Fermentation is usually pretty clean and competes the bulk of fermentation in 4 or 5 days. Leave a few days to a week. Rack to a keg, add gelatin for fining and cold crash/carb.

 

[normonster]

Let me just clarify something on the water issue. I know it's a controversial opinion perhaps, as many people disagree. but I stronglu believe the following:

1. You need to make sure you take care of the basics first - Obviously.

2. The reason is the "simple" solutions can be done quickly and easily and cheaply (for the most part) and will give you the biggest bang for the buck. Starting to worry about your water and blaming your water for your under-attenuated beer is just counter-productive - that's not your problem - if you read the beginning of the thread you'll see that the other issues have been addressed, not to mention this isn't a second point, it's an explanation of your first point..

3. Water chemistry is somewhat complicated and takes a lot of time to figure out if you actually want to know what you are doing instead of just blindly following what some software tells you - BS. You can start with RO and make additions to create a waterprofile by just following what some software says, 100%. Further, you can read the available literature and begin to tweak concentrations according to...yes, what a book says. People mash and do all kinds of stuff without any clue as to the science behind it. For a scientist, you appear to have little exploratory spirit.

Having said all that - you should run your water through water filter to remove chlorine and other stuff - Why bother. Just use RO and be sure.

So the crucial first step is to figure out if you are one of those 10% of if you are kind of Ok for now.


Look up your city water profile here:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/water-profiles/

Plug it into some brew software (beersmith for example), along with some "target" water profile and see how badly you are off - You just told him not to trust what "some software says". But in the meantime (or at the same time and previously covered int his thread), worry about everything else (fermentation, yeast health, temp control etc.)

Don't listen to "scientists" like this guy - he doesn't even realize that water has an affect on attenuation and likely isn't even practicing any water chemistry himself. Not to mention, discouraging other brewers to increase their knowledge? WTF.

.......Starting to worry about your water and blaming your water for your under-attenuated beer is just counter-productive - that's not your problem. ...

Adjusting water from RO is easy, and you CAN do it by following software. Monitoring pH is easy, and you CAN do it with a little handheld machine. Learning the affect of higher or lower concentrations of some particular water ion in your water profile, as it applies to the flavors of your beer, is, yes, EASY. We're talking one single book.

 

[BeardedBrews]

Adjusting water from RO is easy

This is true.

From the brewing science forum you can get the simplest approach to good all-grain water:

(REF DeLange) Baseline: Add 1 tsp of calcium chloride dihydrate (what your LHBS sells) to each 5 gallons of water treated. Add 2% sauermalz to the grist.

Deviate from the baseline as follows:

For soft water beers (i.e Pils, Helles). Use half the baseline amount of calcium chloride and increase the sauermalz to 3%

For beers that use roast malt (Stout, porter): Skip the sauermalz.

For British beers: Add 1 tsp gypsum as well as 1 tsp calcium chloride

For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum.

These recommendations should get you a good beer if not the best beer. To get the best you should vary the amounts of the added salts noting carefully whether a change benefits or detriments your enjoyment of the beer. Additional sulfate will sharpen the perceived hops bitterness. Additional chloride will round, smooth and sweeten the beer. Add or decrease these in small amounts.

 

[55x11]

Don't listen to "scientists" like this guy - he doesn't even realize that water has an affect on attenuation and likely isn't even practicing any water chemistry himself. Not to mention, discouraging other brewers to increase their knowledge? WTF.


Adjusting water from RO is easy, and you CAN do it by following software. Monitoring pH is easy, and you CAN do it with a little handheld machine. Learning the affect of higher or lower concentrations of some particular water ion in your water profile, as it applies to the flavors of your beer, is, yes, EASY. We're talking one single book.

Ugh...

I am trying to set a priority list. I never argued that NOBODY should ever attempt any water chemistry. It's just that in this particular example, the OP should focus on other issues first. Once he fixes those, he can play with chemistry all he wants.

For most people, health yeast and fermentation and sanitation should be at the top. Water chemistry should be at the bottom - as long as your water source is "Ok". So the key is to figure out if your water is really terrible or not, as I said above.

And no need to make personal baseless accusations. I do have a PhD (what is your highest degree, Mr. "scientist"?), I am an actual "scientist" and I do active research in physical sciences. I do water treatment for my brewing (although not all the time), but I don't start with RO water (sometimes cut it by 50% or less) - and since I have pretty decent water to start with, most styles don't require much additions at all. So what I said holds true - look up your city water and figure out if your water is really that bad first.

I just think it's a bad advice to tell everyone to start with water chemistry.

Everyone need to focus on basics first. Poor attenuation and sweet-tasting beer is most likely result of poor mashing or yeast stalling. Those are the areas to focus on first. If you want to expand your horizons on water chemistry, that's great - but advanced methods (which is where water chemistry belongs) should be attempted after basics are covered.

You may argue water chemistry is "easy", but I bet anyone who claims that couldn't really explain what they are doing and why - they are just following some blind recipe from software. That's not "understanding" - if you want to actually understand even basics of water chemistry, "WHY" you are adding this acid or this mineral - it's actually quite complex. And I would encourage everyone to understand "WHY" aspects of brewing, from mashing, yeast, and grain down to water, not just robotically follow some blind instructions like a robot. Otherwise you can't improvise or innovate.

Similarly to recipe building - you can copy someone's recipe line by line, any idiot can do that - but designing your own recipe with some idea of what each ingredient is doing there, that requires some basic knowledge and understanding.

In any case - I claim the OP has more fundamental problems than just water chemistry.