all grain brews keep coming out with the same bitter taste...

[G2G]

Ive read a ****load of posts on here that brewers have posted with the same issue but never an answer. I was hoping that someone on here sees this and is able to say "yeah I had the same thing and I finally figured out it was ______ !" If you've had this problem you know exactly what I'm taking about. Its a very distinct flavor that comes right after the first sip and is a bitter aftertaste that lingers. Its there after primary fermentation before bottling.

I have Palmers book and have read it a bunch of times to pinpoint it but its hard to pin down. I guess its kinda teabagish bitter but ive never sucked on a teabag before. Maybe metallic? Maybe kinda hot? Its just a nasty bitter taste in the beer like bleh. Technically you can drink it and I've had friends that will but they don't know much about beer even when I advise them not to. I even tasted the same bitter taste in a local brewery, in a dark saison they had. But I assumed they messed up and were trying to limit their losses by serving it.

My best guess is something to do with tannins and too much water, or mash ph, or maybe im sparging at too high a temp, or my water but I used every kind water to narrow it down (tap, spring, distilled, purified, and tap with campden tablets) and got the same taste. It happened on extract and on all grain. I know that if you've had this you know the taste.

Since im sure I'll get all kinds of questions about what I do, heres my process:

Clean all equipment with PBW (4 scoops/2 gal)
Sanitize w saniclean (1 oz/3gal)
Cooler mashtun, start w boiled water to warm it up
Campden tablet in pot while heating up Strike water, (temp and volume based on recipe,169°?)
I use the mash/sparge calcs online
Pour strike water in mash tun
Add ph stabilizer 5.2 as directed
Stir in grains, mash 60 mins @152°?
Vorlauf
Check wort w iodine
Fly sparge, (sparge water in liquor tank is at about 169° avg)
Get wort to a full boil, start 60 mins and add hops
15 mins left add whirfloc tablet and stainless steel wortchiller
Icebath and wortchiller
Move to glass carboy @70°
Aerate by shaking
Pitch yeast (I've used every kind of yeast)
Move to chest freezer w temp controller at avg 68° for 2-4 weeks...
Anddd I get the bitter taste!


It DID NOT happen on a stout, 2 amber ales, and 2 duncelweizens which makes it more frustrating. Its driving me crazy! I'm very meticulous and conscious during brewing and barely walk away. I say that because I think that weeds out a lot of possible goofs that may happen in one-off situations. This is a consistent problem that I can't figure out.

Hope this doesn't come across as me being an ******* but im solely trying to sort out what's causing this flavor. Posts such as aeration techniques aren't going to be useful at this point.

Thank you to anyone that takes the time to read all this and can give me some direction. I take brewing very serious (maybe too much) and its extremely disheartening to keep making bitter beers. Thanks!

 

[Yooper]

Since it's not happening on darker colored beers, it sounds like a water chemistry issue and a too-high mash pH when not using dark colored grains. It's probably that the water is alkaline and high in bicarbonate.

I'd suggest using reverse osmosis water (from the big "water machine" at the grocery store or Walmart), and if that fixes it then you know that's it.

 

[fearwig]

"Teabag" is tannin, i.e. high mash pH. I think high pH in the final product can contribute to bitterness, too (lower pH in any food certainly decreases perception of bitterness). I had ph9 tap in my old place, and I adjusted successfully with citric acid (teeny pinch, retest, repeat), took care of any hint of tannin.

If you've had this with completely different water profiles I don't know what to say, though. Did you use 100% spring, filtered, etc, or did you split the difference?

 

[Brewskii]

How long do you wait to tap it?

 

[G2G]

Thanks Yooper, this next batch ill try RO water just to see if that's it. I want to say I've used RO water before but in thinking about it, im not positive right now. I checked my cities water report and saw they used chloramine and thought the campden tablets would take care of that. But maybe I need to go in another direction and start over with the water. The color factor of the beers isn't something I thought of too.

Fearwig - ive used all of whatever water im using on that batch, so not splitting any water. Like I bought 17 gallons of purified water from the store for 2 batches and those came out ok. Next was tap w campden tablets, came out ok, then same thing (tap w campden) and got the bitter taste on last 2. Those 2 were a cream ale and a saison so maybe it does have something to do with the chemistry and having no darker malts (sorry combining posts).

Brewski- ive tested different time frames to check. At first when I got the bitter taste I thought maybe it needed more time so id let it ferment longer, another week or 2, or I'd bottle it and wait (2 weeks, 4 weeks, longer) but the taste is still there. I still have bottles in my fridge I keep just so I have an example of the taste. Those are pushing close to a year on a couple of them. So now I check it after 2 weeks or so in the fermenter and if the taste is there, I know my batch is doomed and I don't move forward. The batch before this was a saison I left alone in the fermenter for 5 weeks and it had the taste.

 

[Brewskii]

Yeah, I was thinking green beer but it sounds like your beyond that.

 

[llgriffin]

I'm in the same boat right now. I have a water softener at home and I'm convinced that's the problem, it's a salty bitter taste in every batch, super frustrating. I just did a batch with 50/50 ro and unsoftened water so I'm hoping it comes out better. Let us know if ya nail it.

 

[tgmartin000]

It does sound like a water thing. Use ro or di water and ditch the 5.2. Are you pitching enough healthy yeast? And honesty, shaking doesn't really help optimize your fermentation with respect to O2. Maybe ferment a little cooler?

 

[AxtBrewing]

It replaces the needed calcium with sodium.

 

[fearwig]

Fearwig - ive used all of whatever water im using on that batch, so not splitting any water. Like I bought 17 gallons of purified water from the store for 2 batches and those came out ok. Next was tap w campden tablets, came out ok, then same thing (tap w campden) and got the bitter taste on last 2. Those 2 were a cream ale and a saison so maybe it does have something to do with the chemistry and having no darker malts (sorry combining posts).
.

So purified water DID help! And you had no issue with darker malts (which lower mash pH). Problem solved. You have high pH water like Yooper said (usually synonymous with hard water). Get a pH tester like this one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CH3QZSE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Campden won't help pH, it's strictly for chlorine. I didn't find it necessary with my hard water, I just had to adjust the pH down to the right range so mash would be at least as low as the mid-fives.

RO or other water replacement is probably the "best" solution for a good overall flavor, but acidifying your mash in some way will solve the tannin issue and give you something good you can work with (and not buying water will probably mean you brew more beer, honestly). pH is absolutely the number one concern you should have with your water, it will affect your mash the most directly. As I said before, I used a pinch of citric acid, and it worked great, imparts no flavor (other than "acid" if you taste it in concentration, but y'know, it's an acid). Some people will groan and say lactic or aciduated malt or some fancy LHBS brewer's acid (which is often a mix of citric and lactic anyway from what I understand). I sprinkled it in the mash tun not too long after adding strike water/hydrating the grain and mixed between additions until it read around in the upper fives on my meter, and it dropped to around 5.4 as the wort was extracted. Pretty easy.

 

[G2G]

Fearwig- I'd love it if you're right and I found my answer! I ordered the PH meter and citric acid this morning. Says it'll here by Wednesday. Keep you posted. Sooo just so im clear as this is unchartered territory for me to be honest... you say scrap the campden tablets (I was using these bc my city uses chloramines and I thought the taste was chloraphenols) and the PH stabilizer 5.2 (since I'm adjusting the PH w the acid) and just add pinches of citric acid to the strike water during mixing in my grains until I get it to around avg 5.5 PH? Is that pretty much the jist of it bc I need to bring my PH down? This sounds dumb I admit but I thought that's what the 5.2 was doing. I didn't fully comprehend the stabilizer I guess. Sigh.

And by the way, thank you very much to everyone for the advice.

 

[dyqik]

pH stabilizer 5.2 is widely reported around here (by serious water chemistry people) to not work nearly as well as advertised. It may help in some cases, but the range of possible water chemistry is too wide for any single dosing of a universal treatment to work well.

Get a water chemistry report (depending on where you are, your local water supplier may already give enough information, someone might have posted a local water analysis to the forum, or you might have to spring for a water analysis - costs less than a batch of beer), and Bru'n'water and work out what additions you need for your water and the beer you are brewing. You don't need to get it spot on, just close.

 

[fearwig]

Fearwig- I'd love it if you're right and I found my answer! I ordered the PH meter and citric acid this morning. Says it'll here by Wednesday. Keep you posted. Sooo just so im clear as this is unchartered territory for me to be honest... you say scrap the campden tablets (I was using these bc my city uses chloramines and I thought the taste was chloraphenols) and the PH stabilizer 5.2 (since I'm adjusting the PH w the acid) and just add pinches of citric acid to the strike water during mixing in my grains until I get it to around avg 5.5 PH? Is that pretty much the jist of it bc I need to bring my PH down? This sounds dumb I admit but I thought that's what the 5.2 was doing. I didn't fully comprehend the stabilizer I guess. Sigh.

And by the way, thank you very much to everyone for the advice.

The stabilizer should have been working to that effect but I don't have any experience with that. I think it's a 5.2 pH buffer or something, so it moves you in the direction of 5.2 and effectively works to keep you there... but it's sort of a subtle nudge when you really need a full adjustment.

I don't think you need to scrap the campden if you think they help, but I was on chlorinated city water and it didn't matter for me. They don't address your primary problem which is pH, though.

The only thing that's at all tricky is that you want to hit something in the lowish to mid pH5 range by the time your mash is really going, but you also kind of want to get your pH down toward the beginning of the mash to have the full effect. The grains lower your pH a little more as the wort gets extracted, so you just don't want to overdo the citric acid too early, you know?

So you kind of have to feel it out. If you wanted to pH adjust your strike water instead I'd try to get it around 7.5 but I didn't do it that way so I'm just giving you a ballpark number. If you hit 4.9 I don't think the world will end, but if you go too low your beer will get tart.

 

[StoneHands]

It sounds like everyone has covered the issue pretty well, but I wanted to chime in and recommend the OP look at the water chemistry primer too. This may get you want you want without the need to purchase the meter and monitor the pH (unless you want to do that as well as part of your brewday). You may have high sulfate water too...

I'll second the recommendation to ditch the 5.2. Too many smart folks have studied this product and recommend NOT using it.

I'll probably get griped at for this final recommendation as well, especially since it's unsolicited, but I'd ditch the fly sparge too. I don't fully understand why folks do a fly sparge on the homebrew level. Save the time and hassle and just batch sparge. You'll likely get just as good efficiency, but even if you don't, add (likely) less than a pound of additional grain and get your hour back in the brew day. Granted, if you enjoy the fly sparge process, have at it.

 

[mjohnson]

My guess (I'm no expert) is that you have very high or at least variable alkalinity. You are getting away with darker beers because the roast grain pulls the pH into a reasonable range. It probably really affects the sparge and you are extracting tannins.

Since it is a systemic problem and you want to track it down, I'd suggest creating a dead simple pale beer recipe and keep brewing it until you get it figured out. Since I've brewed this recipe and know it tastes pretty good (clean at least), I humbly submit the following (the real key is to start with a known baseline and only change 1 thing per iteration):

Simple pale ale recipe to about 1.050 (5gal batch or scale down to a test-batch size):
10 lbs (95%) MO (or 2-row. MO makes for a tastier beer to my palate)
.5 lbs (5%) C60
1 oz acid malt (might not need - up to you)
Hop to 30 IBU or so (or however bitter you want)

Use RO water.
.5g calcium chloride per gallon (both mash and sparge)
.5g gypsum per gallon (both mash and sparge)
(this should be in the 5.4ish pH range)

Mash at 152 to 154
Do a simple batch sparge.
Ferment with clean ale yeast.

If it still has the taste, then its a process or fermentation issue.
If it doesn't have the taste, then add your water back in and cut out the mineral additions.
If it still doesn't have the taste, then add back fly sparging.
If it still doesn't have the taste, then add back the 5.2 (if you feel you must)

If you don't want to go to all the trouble, the first thing I'd do is nix the 5.2. Enough people I trust on this board say the science doesn't support its claims. Anecdotally, my friend, who makes great beer, used it for 2 batches and his beer tasted worse.

Alternatively, you can do the same process in reverse - start with a recipe you know has the taste and start removing 1 thing at a time. I only suggested starting with the above recipe because I'm pretty confident you'll get a decent beer out of it and it sounds like you could use a batch that turns out.

Good luck, and do tell us what ends up working for you.

 

[fearwig]

I'll probably get griped at for this final recommendation as well, especially since it's unsolicited, but I'd ditch the fly sparge too. I don't fully understand why folks do a fly sparge on the homebrew level. Save the time and hassle and just batch sparge. You'll likely get just as good efficiency, but even if you don't, add (likely) less than a pound of additional grain and get your hour back in the brew day. Granted, if you enjoy the fly sparge process, have at it.

Or BIAB. Whatever people say, you can squeeze the crap out of that bag and never taste a hint of tannin. Has anyone ever switched from BIAB back to traditional sparging, not the other way around? Except for scale reasons--at 5-10 gal BIAB is just too easy to pass up. Your clarity will not suffer if you get a simple poly filter bag. (*dodges thrown vegetable*)

But really I don't think sparge method matters if your pH is right, even the "no sparge below 1.010" rule is no big if you're down in the low fives.

 

[StoneHands]

Or BIAB. Whatever people say, you can squeeze the crap out of that bag and never taste a hint of tannin. Has anyone ever switched from BIAB back to traditional sparging, not the other way around? Except for scale reasons--at 5-10 gal BIAB is just too easy to pass up. Your clarity will not suffer if you get a simple poly filter bag. (*dodges thrown vegetable*)

But really I don't think sparge method matters if your pH is right, even the "no sparge below 1.010" rule is no big if you're down in the low fives.

Yeah, I agree. I wasn't addressing the tannin/taste issue with my comment, I was stating that more from a time savings standpoint.

 

[cank]

I've had this same thing happen to me. I'm still looking into it, so I brewed a SMASH to get a baseline. I just dry hopped it and will see if I get the same aftertaste. I also brewed another version of my SMASH but doing a hop stand instead of typical additions.
I have never checked my ph but I think I will start, just to see where it is. At what times do you check it? I have some ph strips, would those be "close enough"?

 

[schiersteinbrewing]

I was having the same taste issue mainly with my light colored brews. I had dumped two batches because of it. I started controlling my fermentation temps, got a water report (my water was awful for brewing), ditched the 5.2, started using RO water, bought a TDS meter, and followed the Water Chemistry Primer. No more bitter taste, and has improved my brews drastically.

It became a personal vendetta against the bitter taste.

I'm still using paper strips for my PH testing, waiting for Christmas money to buy a digital PH meter. I either batch or fly sparge which ever mood hits me and much time I have.

 

[PRE66_6TART]

I have been getting a weird bitter taste in almost all of my brews which sounds just like the one the OP described. Only my situation seems to be the reverse, I've been getting it in my dark beers, but haven't noticed it in my lighter ones. I was going to start my own thread but I thought it might be helpful to post here and compare, and see if our situations were related. If the OP's PH is too high, could mine be too low? Would that result in the same or similar off-flavor? This is the water I've been using:

https://www.eldoradosprings.com/eldorado-spring-natural-water-analysis

 

[afr0byte]

I have been getting a weird bitter taste in almost all of my brews which sounds just like the one the OP described. Only my situation seems to be the reverse, I've been getting it in my dark beers, but haven't noticed it in my lighter ones. I was going to start my own thread but I thought it might be helpful to post here and compare, and see if our situations were related. If the OP's PH is too high, could mine be too low? Would that result in the same or similar off-flavor? This is the water I've been using:

https://www.eldoradosprings.com/eldorado-spring-natural-water-analysis

It's possible your mash pH is too low on your dark beers with that level of bicarbonate in your water. That can make the dark grains harsher tasting.

 

[fearwig]

I've had this same thing happen to me. I'm still looking into it, so I brewed a SMASH to get a baseline. I just dry hopped it and will see if I get the same aftertaste. I also brewed another version of my SMASH but doing a hop stand instead of typical additions.
I have never checked my ph but I think I will start, just to see where it is. At what times do you check it? I have some ph strips, would those be "close enough"?

I think getting a pH of your water is a good start, then do a pH test about 15-20min into the mash (when the water should have extracted a lot of solutes from the grain). If you do it as soon as you add your strike water you're not going to be getting a good baseline measurement, that's all.

Strictly talking theory, but there's a good argument that adjusting the pH of your sparge water matters even more than your strike water, because the low SG means you're more likely to extract tannin. I forgot to mention that earlier, I guess--just good to remember that the sparge water is important, too. The meter is good because you can measure and re-measure as you test, though, and it's only about twice as much as a pack of 100 strips.

 

[fearwig]

It's possible your mash pH is too low on your dark beers with that level of bicarbonate in your water. That can make the dark grains harsher tasting.

Good chance that's just about grain choices, too, IMO. There's a flavor difference between say 2# of C120 versus 4oz of something dark roasted (which may contribute less flavor) even if the color is the same.

 

[G2G]

**Small update, I got the PH meter and citric acid in the mail today and did some tests. I calibrated the ph meter and then checked my tap waters PH three times just to get an idea. Once right as I turned it on, once after a couple minutes running, then once after 5 minutes running to make sure to get anything in the pipes out. All in about 8oz of water, all 3 came out to 8.1 PH. Then I sprinkled just a pinch of the citric acid and it dropped to 4.2, 4.3, and 4.7!

I'm brewing another cream ale this weekend, I'll keep you posted. I'm also sending a water sample out to Wards lab to have them run the brewers test on it. I'm excited that I might have found my problem, (judging by the posts it sounds like I have).

Again, thanks for all the help and advice, I wish I'd done this way way sooner. I'll report back in a couple weeks after this cream ale's fermented.

 

[BackAlley]

I think getting a pH of your water is a good start....

.....Strictly talking theory, but there's a good argument that adjusting the pH of your sparge water matters even more than your strike water.

Checking pH of your water, strike or sparge is, I believe, practically meaningless. You're monitoring and adjusting the pH of the mash and runnings.

 

[afr0byte]

Checking pH of your water, strike or sparge is, I believe, practically meaningless. You're monitoring and adjusting the pH of the mash and runnings.

Agreed

 

[cank]

To me, in my ignorant mind, it would seem that with a given amount of grain x, water ph of y, and a mash temp of z, you could calculate how much citric acid you needed to add to bring it within range. Or are there too many other factors involved?

 

[cank]

Just had another thought, could you do a small version of you mash on the stove and take a ph reading, adjust it, then scale that addition up on brew day?

 

[Skep18]

With all-grain, I've heard mashing too high can make unfermentable sugars, hence a sweet taste (if that's what you're getting).

Thank you to anyone that takes the time to read all this and can give me some direction. I take brewing very serious (maybe too much) and its extremely disheartening to keep making bitter beers. Thanks!

Unfortunately, I didn't finish the post, but in my experience, bottling with corn sugar causes medicine like flavors in hoppy beers, almost like robitussin or something. In brown ales or other malt-concentrated beers, I've not had issues. But in IPA's/Pale Ales, they made it taste bad.

My solution was kegging.

Sorry if this didn't help. Before kegging, I was going to bottle with DME.

 

[BackAlley]

To me, in my ignorant mind, it would seem that with a given amount of grain x, water ph of y, and a mash temp of z, you could calculate how much citric acid you needed to add to bring it within range. Or are there too many other factors involved?

Water pH tells you virtually nothing about the alkalinity which, from the water side of the equation strongly drives resulting mash pH. It's kind of like comparing a stack of watch batteries and a car battery and saying they're the same because they are both 12V.

You should go to the brewing science section and read the water primer sticky.

PS citric acid isn't generally used because you can taste it. Calcium salts (gypsum or calcium chloride), lactic or phosphoric acid are more commonly used to control high pH.

 

[BackAlley]

Just had another thought, could you do a small version of you mash on the stove and take a ph reading, adjust it, then scale that addition up on brew day?

You're absolutely right, you could. However, I think you'll find it's easier and more repeatable to first use some software (I use Bru'n water) to get you close and then make any last minute adjustments. I've only had my pH meter for 5 batches but I've yet to be off my target mash pH by more than 0.1.

 

[OptimusJay]

This thread is exactly what I was hoping to find regarding astringent taste and how mash pH plays into that. My last two all grain beers have been like this and they were used with my tap water as opposed to bottled water in nearly every previous brew. So, it looks like I'll be getting a pH meter and some acids for adjustment soon.

One question though. I use a 10g round Rubbermaid cooler for my MLT and I'm somewhat concerned about my mash temp dropping if I'm in there sampling for pH and then possibly (and most likely in my case) in there again adding acids and stiring for adjustment. Is this an issue for any of you? And if so, what do you do to keep mash temp from dropping?

Jay

 

[BackAlley]

One question though. I use a 10g round Rubbermaid cooler for my MLT and I'm somewhat concerned about my mash temp dropping if I'm in there sampling for pH and then possibly (and most likely in my case) in there again adding acids and stiring for adjustment. Is this an issue for any of you? And if so, what do you do to keep mash temp from dropping?

Jay

The heat loss is negligible. I took 3 readings today and I measured 0.4 degrees HIGHER at the end than at the start.

I'm taking orders for perpetual motion machines now too.

 

[fearwig]

Checking pH of your water, strike or sparge is, I believe, practically meaningless. You're monitoring and adjusting the pH of the mash and runnings.

You have surely heard someone say this, and perhaps they were ignorant to the fact that your mash pH is a factor of your grist aaaaand... your water. So if you are troubleshooting your mash pH, unless you have some mysteriously sour source of grains, you should check out your water.

A mash made of grist X and pH 7.5 water will be way more acidic than the same grist from pH 9, every time. The reason people tell you to look at mash pH is because that's where your target comes in (low fives) and dark grains lower your pH more than light. Makes sense?

Now if you wait and adjust your pH 30 minutes into your mash, maybe it'll be fine--but you just did half your mash at the wrong pH. It's probably a bigger deal at sparge than sacc rest but some initial adjustment makes perfect sense if your strike pH is crazy.

 

[colinzeye]

Sterilization is one of the best habits to have but, over sterilizing can produce a bitter chemical taste also. Try just washing with HOT, soapy water (using a good antibacterial dish soap that isunscented), a cap of bleach and rinsing REALLY well. Dry. Use star San to spray on and let dry.
Also boil your water for 15 minutes to eliminate the chlorination. Boil and cool, then start your brew as you normally would.

 

[BackAlley]

A mash made of grist X and pH 7.5 water will be way more acidic than the same grist from pH 9, every time.

I believe I could take distilled water and with a little addition get it to have a pH of 9 then take very alkaline water at a pH of 7.5 and get a lower mash pH with the higher pH water.

pH of the water tells you nothing about the alkalinity. My water has a pH of 8.4. Sounds high right? I should have trouble mashing right? Wrong. My alkalinity is 37ppm. I easily can get too acidic with dark malts.

 

[IslandLizard]

I don't know if this inadvertently dropped out, but if you know you have chlorine or chloramines in your water you do want to use 1/4 Campden tablet per 5 gallons of water (or use a pinch of potassium metabisulphite). Stir well. Just boiling alone will not drive of chloramines in reasonable time. It's an entirely different issue than tannin extraction but can ruin your beer just as much or worse if left untreated.

I don't know if one can really taste citric acid at such low concentrations. I'll queue the test up for next time.

Doing small test mashes (a couple ounces will do fine) to determine the pH and needed additions makes more sense than keep brewing the same recipe over and over again.

 

[fearwig]

I believe I could take distilled water and with a little addition get it to have a pH of 9 then take very alkaline water at a pH of 7.5 and get a lower mash pH with the higher pH water.

pH of the water tells you nothing about the alkalinity. My water has a pH of 8.4. Sounds high right? I should have trouble mashing right? Wrong. My alkalinity is 37ppm. I easily can get too acidic with dark malts.

Not with the same grain bill, you couldn't. Which is the point.

8.4 isn't that nuts for tap, just a little high. You could certainly go under 5 with that water if you make something really roasty. If you make strike water adjustments (vs adjusting in mash) you obviously have to take grist and style into account, but if you're troubleshooting tannin flavors that only occur in paler mashes (like the OP, if anyone noticed) this isn't relevant.

 

[fearwig]

I don't know if one can really taste citric acid at such low concentrations. I'll queue the test up for next time.

pH 5.6 wort will taste different from pH 5.2 wort (if you can detect it anyway) no matter what you use to acidify, so I think the "threshold" talk you tend to hear is mostly a mess--pH is what you're trying to alter, so being able to taste it is a weird point of discussion to me.

I think what people should consider instead is whether water adjusted with citric tastes different from water adjusted with lactic (or whatever) and if so whether one is preferable to the other. My money says some brewers favor lactic because they associate it with e.g sours brewing, so it sounds more "natural". Either is so cheap it's silly in the amounts needed, so it's about whatever is on hand, IMO.

 

[afr0byte]

Not with the same grain bill, you couldn't. Which is the point.

8.4 isn't that nuts for tap, just a little high. You could certainly go under 5 with that water if you make something really roasty. If you make strike water adjustments (vs adjusting in mash) you obviously have to take grist and style into account, but if you're troubleshooting tannin flavors that only occur in paler mashes (like the OP, if anyone noticed) this isn't relevant.

For most beers you don't want any alkalinity, and for those you do want some alkalinity it's a modest amount. The starting water pH has very little affect in these cases.