All beers have an astringent bite/water?

[JONNYROTTEN]

I feel Ive dialed in just about everything I can.Recirculating mash for even temps(152 deg)for an hour.Temp controlled fermentation at 65 with us05.Ive done 10 day beers and three week beers and they all taste the same.I only brew light beers,C3C,IPS's,yoopers 60 min type beers.I EBIAB. Im wondering could it be:
Copper IC
Grain over crushed(I double mill)Again BIAB
Or what Im thinking more is my water.
I tried going on Bru'n water but its telling me I need Microsoft office that I don't have.I ordered a PH meter that is coming tomorrow but Im not sure what time it will be here and Im brewing tomorrow.I bought Malic acid that my LHBS said was the same as lactic acid.Im brewing Cream of three crops tomorrow,the lightest of all light beers and Im concerned Ill get more off flavors.According to my water report and grain bill could someone let me know if I should add the Malic acid and if so how much,Ive never adjusted ph before and I cant download the calculator,Thanks http://65.36.213.246/dwqr2014/pdfs/Distribution Area 12.pdf C of 3 crops link http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...mkGyJYYxJJkKMKb4upztFw&bvm=bv.107763241,d.dmo

 

[DrVertebrae]

I feel Ive dialed in just about everything I can.Recirculating mash for even temps(152 deg)for an hour.Temp controlled fermentation at 65 with us05.Ive done 10 day beers and three week beers and they all taste the same.I only brew light beers,C3C,IPS's,yoopers 60 min type beers.I EBIAB. Im wondering could it be:
Copper IC
Grain over crushed(I double mill)Again BIAB
Or what Im thinking more is my water.
I tried going on Bru'n water but its telling me I need Microsoft office that I don't have.I ordered a PH meter that is coming tomorrow but Im not sure what time it will be here and Im brewing tomorrow.I bought Malic acid that my LHBS said was the same as lactic acid.Im brewing Cream of three crops tomorrow,the lightest of all light beers and Im concerned Ill get more off flavors.According to my water report and grain bill could someone let me know if I should add the Malic acid and if so how much,Ive never adjusted ph before and I cant download the calculator,Thanks http://65.36.213.246/dwqr2014/pdfs/Distribution Area 12.pdf C of 3 crops link http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...mkGyJYYxJJkKMKb4upztFw&bvm=bv.107763241,d.dmo

Over grinding.

 

[brew703]

I feel Ive dialed in just about everything I can.Recirculating mash for even temps(152 deg)for an hour.Temp controlled fermentation at 65 with us05.Ive done 10 day beers and three week beers and they all taste the same.I only brew light beers,C3C,IPS's,yoopers 60 min type beers.I EBIAB. Im wondering could it be:
Copper IC
Grain over crushed(I double mill)Again BIAB
Or what Im thinking more is my water.
I tried going on Bru'n water but its telling me I need Microsoft office that I don't have.I ordered a PH meter that is coming tomorrow but Im not sure what time it will be here and Im brewing tomorrow.I bought Malic acid that my LHBS said was the same as lactic acid.Im brewing Cream of three crops tomorrow,the lightest of all light beers and Im concerned Ill get more off flavors.According to my water report and grain bill could someone let me know if I should add the Malic acid and if so how much,Ive never adjusted ph before and I cant download the calculator,Thanks http://65.36.213.246/dwqr2014/pdfs/Distribution Area 12.pdf C of 3 crops link http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...mkGyJYYxJJkKMKb4upztFw&bvm=bv.107763241,d.dmo

you can download Libre Office for free and then you will be able to use Bru n Water.

 

[cilestiok]

I feel Ive dialed in just about everything I can.Recirculating mash for even temps(152 deg)for an hour.Temp controlled fermentation at 65 with us05.Ive done 10 day beers and three week beers and they all taste the same.I only brew light beers,C3C,IPS's,yoopers 60 min type beers.I EBIAB. Im wondering could it be:

Copper IC

Grain over crushed(I double mill)Again BIAB

Or what Im thinking more is my water.

I tried going on Bru'n water but its telling me I need Microsoft office that I don't have.I ordered a PH meter that is coming tomorrow but Im not sure what time it will be here and Im brewing tomorrow.I bought Malic acid that my LHBS said was the same as lactic acid.Im brewing Cream of three crops tomorrow,the lightest of all light beers and Im concerned Ill get more off flavors.According to my water report and grain bill could someone let me know if I should add the Malic acid and if so how much,Ive never adjusted ph before and I cant download the calculator,Thanks http://65.36.213.246/dwqr2014/pdfs/Distribution Area 12.pdf C of 3 crops link http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...mkGyJYYxJJkKMKb4upztFw&bvm=bv.107763241,d.dmo

Can you give info on sparge method, temps, volumes and pH if you have it?

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Can you give info on sparge method, temps, volumes and pH if you have it?

I raise the bag and basket above the wort,the bag is open on top and attached around the rim of the basket.I let it drain for a bit.Then I squish the grain bed with a pot lid to extract as much as I can.Ive dumped hot tap water,maybe 140 deg) over the grain bed till I got to desired pre boil levels.Ive also heated sparge water to 152 and dumped on grain bed.Sometimes its been a gallon or so,some times less sometimes more depending on grain bill. I brew 10 gallon batches.As for the ph,again waiting for ph meter but water report (linked) shows 7.1.I was thinking ph may be the problem?

 

[dsaavedra]

Try using the calculator here http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/, inputting the relevant info about your mash volumes, water composition, and grain bill. Then under the Acid Addition section, adjust your acid amounts until you have an estimated mash ph of ~5.3 - 5.4. That's what I've been doing the past few brews (I use RO water though and add salts as well, you may or may not have to add salts given your water composition), and they have been turning out pretty good (I used to have problems similar to yours when I was using my high-alkalinity tap water with no alterations)

 

[cilestiok]

You will definitely need acidification depending on your recipe if you're brewing lighter styles. I would advise waiting to mash in until after your meter arrives and is calibrated because it's the only truly reliable way of knowing how to accurately adjust your ph.

 

[doug293cz]

Over grinding.

Wrong. Grinding doesn't extract tannins, high (>6.0) pH does. Lots of BIABers grind to flour without astringency problems.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

+1 on LibreOffice for using Bru'nWater. That's what I do.

Brew on

 

[philosofool]

Yeah, I would say from that water report, you will need mild acidification of your mash and sparge water to do pale beers. Probably .5L per gallon. Edit: but if you've already ordered your pH meter, you can do better than that estimate.

 

[MerlinWerks]

Over-carbonation perhaps? A lot of my beers had a dryness/bite in the finish/aftertaste. I cut my pressure back a few psi and it made a noticeable difference. That dryness masked a lot of the malt flavor, my beers were always drinkable, but they are much tastier now.

If you bottle it probably won't be as easy/fast to adjust, but still may worth looking in to...

 

[cilestiok]

OP, when you said you only brew lighter styles, did you mean exclusively?

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

OP, when you said you only brew lighter styles, did you mean exclusively?

Yes Ive yet to do a stout.Its on the list for a slow sipper nightcap beer but I always drink lighter color beers at a bar so that's what I brew.
on tap-Fresh squeezed IPA
In fermenter 60 min IPA
Brewing tomorrow cream of three crops

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Over-carbonation perhaps? A lot of my beers had a dryness/bite in the finish/aftertaste. I cut my pressure back a few psi and it made a noticeable difference. That dryness masked a lot of the malt flavor, my beers were always drinkable, but they are much tastier now.

If you bottle it probably won't be as easy/fast to adjust, but still may worth looking in to...

I was looking up carbonic bite forever as that what I thought it was.Im 2.4 volume.Well within range.The thing is the post fermentation hydrometer samples have the same taste/bite. Im getting minimal hop flavor even with dry hopping also.If that's helps with any diagnosis

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Yeah, I would say from that water report, you will need mild acidification of your mash and sparge water to do pale beers. Probably .5L per gallon. Edit: but if you've already ordered your pH meter, you can do better than that estimate.

I was sold Malic acid.Its a powder.Any idea how to convert .5L per gallon to a powder measurement.Ive been looking it up and cant find any info

 

[philosofool]

I was looking up carbonic bite forever as that what I thought it was.Im 2.4 volume.Well within range.The thing is the post fermentation hydrometer samples have the same taste/bite. Im getting minimal hop flavor even with dry hopping also.If that's helps with any diagnosis

For awhile, I thought that flat, dull, lifeless--namely, oxidized--beer was something else. Could it be oxidation? After filling do you purge your keg 8 times or more? (At one point, I was being dumb and just purged like twice before carbonating. I was also shaking kegs to carbonated. Oxidation city...)

 

[philosofool]

I was sold Malic acid.Its a powder.Any idea how to convert .5L per gallon to a powder measurement.Ive been looking it up and cant find any info

Well, I can't say for sure, but I screwed up: it's .5 mL, not liters you want (sorry for that typo!). I would guess a tsp/5 gallons would be close. If it's really astringency, your water should be fine with just a touch of acidification. It's not strongly alkaline, but you are brewing beer that needs water very low in alkalinity. pH is base ten logarithmic scale: it takes just a tenth of the acid to lower something from 7 to 6 as from 6 to 5 and you only need about pH 6 in sparge water, and only then for paler beers.

 

[doug293cz]

I was sold Malic acid.Its a powder.Any idea how to convert .5L per gallon to a powder measurement.Ive been looking it up and cant find any info

.5 L/gal must be a typo. 0.5 g/gal is a more likely amount. For a dry powder, you would be using g rather than ml.

Edit: apparently I'm a little slow on the draw...
Brew on

 

[olotti]

I feel Ive dialed in just about everything I can.Recirculating mash for even temps(152 deg)for an hour.Temp controlled fermentation at 65 with us05.Ive done 10 day beers and three week beers and they all taste the same.I only brew light beers,C3C,IPS's,yoopers 60 min type beers.I EBIAB. Im wondering could it be:
Copper IC
Grain over crushed(I double mill)Again BIAB
Or what Im thinking more is my water.
I tried going on Bru'n water but its telling me I need Microsoft office that I don't have.I ordered a PH meter that is coming tomorrow but Im not sure what time it will be here and Im brewing tomorrow.I bought Malic acid that my LHBS said was the same as lactic acid.Im brewing Cream of three crops tomorrow,the lightest of all light beers and Im concerned Ill get more off flavors.According to my water report and grain bill could someone let me know if I should add the Malic acid and if so how much,Ive never adjusted ph before and I cant download the calculator,Thanks http://65.36.213.246/dwqr2014/pdfs/Distribution Area 12.pdf C of 3 crops link http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...mkGyJYYxJJkKMKb4upztFw&bvm=bv.107763241,d.dmo

Just from what you describe I would say it's your water as others have alluded too. I'm dealing and now correcting the same issue. Was using store bought spring water for my beer and once it was professionally tasted the biggest issue was the mouth coating astringency bite from to high a mash pH. Got into mineral additions using RO water and with bru'n water and Yoopers help and its corrected that problem. Fix your water and you'll notice an immediate difference in your beer quality and taste, my beer comes out cleaner, much clearer, and as I hope it would when I concoct the recipe in my head.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

So I called the post office found out where the post lady was,got in my car and got my ph meter out of the back of the truck pre brew day...dedicaded I am.
After calibrating:
Tap water was 7.6
Mash after 5 min was 6.4
Added 2 teaspoons Malic acid at 10 min,30 min into the mash Im at 5.5
Hoping for a great beer
I think Ill do 2 teaspoons for every APA,IPA and see where it goes

 

[doug293cz]

So I called the post office found out where the post lady was,got in my car and got my ph meter out of the back of the truck pre brew day...dedicaded I am.
After calibrating:
Tap water was 7.6
Mash after 5 min was 6.4
Added 2 teaspoons Malic acid at 10 min,30 min into the mash Im at 5.5
Hoping for a great beer
I think Ill do 2 teaspoons for every APA,IPA and see where it goes

Hopefully, the rest at 6.4 pH was at low enough temp and for short enough time to avoid significant tannin extraction. Now that you know, get the acid in before the grain to make sure your pH is low enough from the start. Hope this solves your problem.

Brew on

 

[philosofool]

So I called the post office found out where the post lady was,got in my car and got my ph meter out of the back of the truck pre brew day...dedicaded I am.
After calibrating:
Tap water was 7.6
Mash after 5 min was 6.4
Added 2 teaspoons Malic acid at 10 min,30 min into the mash Im at 5.5
Hoping for a great beer
I think Ill do 2 teaspoons for every APA,IPA and see where it goes

Make sure you take your measurements at room temp, not mash temp.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

All tests were done at room temp.Im hoping a 6.4 mash reading has been my problem. 15 left in boil.Ill test hydrometer sample just because its a new toy.

 

[olotti]

All tests were done at room temp.Im hoping a 6.4 mash reading has been my problem. 15 left in boil.Ill test hydrometer sample just because its a new toy.

6.4 is really high. That'll def throw off a lot of astringency in your finished product. Get the mash pH down to 5.3-5.5 and you should notice an immediate difference in the finish of your beer.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Brew day is over.
I sampled the OG sample.Maybe its just me but it tasted enjoyably sweet as opposed to bitter/sweet.I could have drank the vial.Usually I chalk the nasty OG taste to an unfermented "beer". Its also by far the clearest its ever been for the exact same beer.I had to double check the recipe to make sure I added the correct amount of grain.Its almost water like yet I hit my numbers exactly.Im hoping this is the beginning of a better beer.

 

[philosofool]

All tests were done at room temp.Im hoping a 6.4 mash reading has been my problem. 15 left in boil.Ill test hydrometer sample just because its a new toy.

You are seriously making me think about sending Santa a letter about pH meters.

 

[augiedoggy]

I second the fact that you want to treat the water BEFORE the mash otherwise its really too late to have much effect.. I use my $10 ph meter with lactic acid to bring my HLT water down to 5.2-5.4 ph I also use RO water now since its much easier to add calcium carbonate and acid to adjust ph and get a cleaner tasting lighter beer.(it also takes much less acid to drop the ph)

Ironically if you would have made dark beers you would have been fine since the roasted grain brings the ph down fast... I dont even bother using ro water with my dark beers

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I second the fact that you want to treat the water BEFORE the mash otherwise its really too late to have much effect.. I use my $10 ph meter with lactic acid to bring my HLT water down to 5.2-5.4 ph I also use RO water now since its much easier to add calcium carbonate and acid to adjust ph and get a cleaner tasting lighter beer.(it also takes much less acid to drop the ph)

Ironically if you would have made dark beers you would have been fine since the roasted grain brings the ph down fast... I dont even bother using ro water with my dark beers

Being this was the first time testing ph I wanted to see where I was at before adjusting anything.Basically create neutral. Next time Ill add the acid pre mash

 

[philosofool]

I second the fact that you want to treat the water BEFORE the mash otherwise its really too late to have much effect.. I use my $10 ph meter with lactic acid to bring my HLT water down to 5.2-5.4 ph I also use RO water now since its much easier to add calcium carbonate and acid to adjust ph and get a cleaner tasting lighter beer.(it also takes much less acid to drop the ph)

Ironically if you would have made dark beers you would have been fine since the roasted grain brings the ph down fast... I dont even bother using ro water with my dark beers

What is this $10 pH meter you speak of? I have been thinking about pH testing and I think that the $100+ meters I see are an expensive pain in the butt. Would you care to comment on $10 pH meters, please? (I can take a pain in the butt, but a pain in the butt that costs $80 a year is not worth it to me.)

 

[RM-MN]

Hopefully, the rest at 6.4 pH was at low enough temp and for short enough time to avoid significant tannin extraction. Now that you know, get the acid in before the grain to make sure your pH is low enough from the start. Hope this solves your problem.

Brew on

In my testing for the time for the conversion in the mash, using a very finely milled grain I found the conversion to be done in about 5 minutes based on the iodine test for starch. That means you really need the acid addition done before you add the grains.

With grains milled for a conventional tun the conversion takes a lot longer because it starts when the starch gets gelatinized and with bigger particle of grain that starts at the outside of the particle and moves inward with the water. That might buy you enough time to add acid before you get the astringent taste developed but it shouldn't hurt anything to add the acid first.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

What is this $10 pH meter you speak of? I have been thinking about pH testing and I think that the $100+ meters I see are an expensive pain in the butt. Would you care to comment on $10 pH meters, please? (I can take a pain in the butt, but a pain in the butt that costs $80 a year is not worth it to me.)

This is the one one I just bought.Ive been researching them for a while.Pretty much everyone here will not recommend a cheap meter.But for a starting point Im ok with it.The hundredth digit hopped around a bit say from 6.42 to 6.46 but stayed within a tenth.I was more curios to see how far off I was and It was way off.If it craps out after a few uses Im ok with losing 17 bucks. I know from this one test that 2 teaspoons of malic acid and Im in range or close to my style of brewing.Certainly better than before anyway.Maybe someday Ill advance more but for now Im content. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FJFEB2O/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[augiedoggy]

What is this $10 pH meter you speak of? I have been thinking about pH testing and I think that the $100+ meters I see are an expensive pain in the butt. Would you care to comment on $10 pH meters, please? (I can take a pain in the butt, but a pain in the butt that costs $80 a year is not worth it to me.)

I have the same meter as @JOHNNYROTTEN
http://www.ebay.com/itm/31138919666...49&var=610472683802&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
I have 2 actually, an older yellow one i now use for my reef tank and one of these... plenty accurate enough for brewing... I dont get the need for the $big dollar meters for home brewing myself... Just another expensive toy for some I guess...?? Everytime I ask why a $300 meter is needed vs one of these no one answers? I mean if its used to get my water close to the desired ph why is .01 resolution so important??

I can use the 2 meters to check calibration of each and they come with solution to calibrate them.