ale and lager yeast

[bjdetwiler]

Ok, this is my first post and this may be a dumb question, but here goes....I have added a lager yeast to a recent wort and have noticed no activity in my air lock for 48 hours. It is currently at 40 degrees and I pitched at 60 degrees. I plan to give it at least 72 hours before I start to worry. My question is....if no activity occurs can I raise the temp and repitch with an ale yeast, or will that cause an off taste?

 

[cubbies]

40 degrees is likely too cold. what yeast are you using?

 

[Warped04]

I'm no expert, but I am 98.6% positive lager yeast likes 48 - 55 degrees to ferment depending on the strain.

 

[covered95]

For lagers it is best to start the at room temp (65-70) for about 24 hours. once they get going then transfer them to someplace to lager and keep at about 48-55

 

[the_bird]

For lagers it is best to start the at room temp (65-70) for about 24 hours. once they get going then transfer them to someplace to lager and keep at about 48-55

Meh... depends on who you ask. I've heard a much more compelling argument for pitching cold, but you've got to pitch a BIG starter. Did you pitch a starter? How big? Lagers will usually take a little longer to get going, regardless.

To answer the question; ale yeasts are different that lager yeasts, usually "fruitier", so it's different. But, 40° is too cold for primary - you want to be in that 50°-55° range for primary, then you lager (after primary is done) down at 35°-40°. You're just too cold.

Airlock activity's a piss-poor judge of activity, anyway; it's easy to have a small leak that causes the airlock to do nothing, even as the wort ferments away happily.

 

[bjdetwiler]

Thanks for your replies. Sorry, I cant remember the type of yeast. I will look when I get home. I will try to raise the temp and see if this resolves my problem. I am still curious about using ale and lager yeast together. Would this only create an undesirable beer?

 

[Iordz]

I always pitch cold to prevent esters and diacetyl, 40F is too cold though. If you use ale and lager yeast at cool temperatures the ale yeast will not add anything to the beer, it would be a waste of yeast. If you were to ferment warm you might get some interesting results, because the ale and lager yeast would be working.

 

[the_bird]

Thanks for your replies. Sorry, I cant remember the type of yeast. I will look when I get home. I will try to raise the temp and see if this resolves my problem. I am still curious about using ale and lager yeast together. Would this only create an undesirable beer?

Not necessarily, but if you're fermenting at lager temps (proper lager temps, 50°-55°), the ale yeast's going to be mostly dormant. If you're fermenting at proper ale yeast temps (65°-68°), the lager yeast will become pretty fruity. The latter is kinda what you get with a California Common/steam beer yeast, it's a lager yeast that gets fermented kinda warm and ends up a little estery.

Of course, you can buy some of Papazian's "Cry Havok" yeast that he claims will work as either an ale or a lager!

In any case, warm up the fermenter, maybe swirl it around to make sure the yeast's in suspension, and check back in.

 

[bjdetwiler]

Thanks so much! I will try that and let you know.

 

[david_42]

Just raise the temperature to 50F and it should start working.

The California Common yeasts are the only lager yeasts that ferment at ale temperatures.

 

[Scimmia]

The California Common yeasts are the only lager yeasts that ferment at ale temperatures.

Wait, in general, or just without producing too many off flavors?

 

[boo boo]

For lagers it is best to start the at room temp (65-70) for about 24 hours. once they get going then transfer them to someplace to lager and keep at about 48-55

This is not the way to start a PROPER lager fermentation. The PROPER way to do it is as Bird suggested. Pitch a healthy and ample yeast colony at or slightly below fermenting tempertures into wort that is at lager fermenting tempertures. Usually the tempertures are between 48f and 52f for actual fermenting.

 

[Danek]

I am still curious about using ale and lager yeast together. Would this only create an undesirable beer?

I have a friend who's tried pitching two different types of yeast to see what it'd do to the beer. He was hoping for awesome subtle flavors, but he said that what generally happens is that one type of yeast "wins" by out-reproducing the other yeast. The beer ends up tasting no different to if he hadn't pitched the second kind of yeast.