aging vs. drink it now!

[dbsmith]

I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this yet, but it depends also on the strength of the brew. When I make a 4.6% ABV beer, it tastes great from grain to glass in just under a month. At around 6%, it starts taking a couple months to really get in the zone.

 

[Golddiggie]

I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this yet, but it depends also on the strength of the brew. When I make a 4.6% ABV beer, it tastes great from grain to glass in just under a month. At around 6%, it starts taking a couple months to really get in the zone.

My 6-6.6% brews are typically ready to go to glass within 6-8 weeks (as in carbonated and ready to serve). 6.6-7.4% are usually in the 8-12 week range. Above 7.5%, more aging is typically a good idea. Of course, that all depends on the temperatures it was fermented at. You can easily shave weeks (or months) from aging time if you have better temperature control. It also depends on the yeast you use and how long it takes just to ferment. Anything over about 7% is often aged on some kind of wood for 4-8 weeks (or longer) to get some additional flavor complexities. Is that needed? No, but I like what it gives a brew. :fro:

 

[charliefoxtrot]

With new recipes I develop a drinking schedule. The higher the ABV the longer I let it last, but I'll drink one or two bottles a week of a new brew until it starts tasting pretty good; then I drink as much as I want, and save about a third for later. When something's about to go I drink as many as I can, but I usually lose a couple of bottles to souring for a new recipe, just to figure out how long it lasts. For a really big brew I'll reserve some for next year, but usually my beers tap out at about 8 months. If you drink a little regularly you can figure out the prime time to drink it, which is totally different from recipe to recipe, and your next batch will peak just when you decide to drink it.

 

[JLem]

...When something's about to go I drink as many as I can, but I usually lose a couple of bottles to souring for a new recipe, just to figure out how long it lasts....

Not sure I follow you here, but are you saying you hold onto bottles of each new recipe to find out how long until they go sour? If each batch of yours goes sour, you have a sanitation issue - it is not a recipe thing. If your sanitation is good, your beer will never go sour, no matter how long you leave it. They may lose/change flavor over time, but souring shouldn't happen.

 

[charliefoxtrot]

Not sure I follow you here, but are you saying you hold onto bottles of each new recipe to find out how long until they go sour? If each batch of yours goes sour, you have a sanitation issue - it is not a recipe thing. If your sanitation is good, your beer will never go sour, no matter how long you leave it. They may lose/change flavor over time, but souring shouldn't happen.

Pretty much any beer will eventually go sour. Even the best sanitation is not sterilization, but the alcohol and hops keep whatever tiny amount of bacteria survives reproducing very slowly. Improper storage (say, in a hot room or car) greatly speeds up the process.

The only thing I've ever had actually turn to vinegar was some under-sulphured plum jerkum after nine months. My lower-gravity beers just get slightly sour after about a year. I've never had a bottle bomb or a gusher, so I don't think there's any sanitation issue, and I've had commercial beers do it too. The biggest problem is the aroma fades and gives it a disappointing flavor by that point.

 

[mrduna01]

Pretty much any beer will eventually go sour. Even the best sanitation is not sterilization, but the alcohol and hops keep whatever tiny amount of bacteria survives reproducing very slowly. Improper storage (say, in a hot room or car) greatly speeds up the process.

The only thing I've ever had actually turn to vinegar was some under-sulphured plum jerkum after nine months. My lower-gravity beers just get slightly sour after about a year. I've never had a bottle bomb or a gusher, so I don't think there's any sanitation issue, and I've had commercial beers do it too. The biggest problem is the aroma fades and gives it a disappointing flavor by that point.

Not saying your wrong cause I really don't know but I've never had anything go sour after aging.

 

[Golddiggie]

Pretty much any beer will eventually go sour. Even the best sanitation is not sterilization, but the alcohol and hops keep whatever tiny amount of bacteria survives reproducing very slowly. Improper storage (say, in a hot room or car) greatly speeds up the process.

The only thing I've ever had actually turn to vinegar was some under-sulphured plum jerkum after nine months. My lower-gravity beers just get slightly sour after about a year. I've never had a bottle bomb or a gusher, so I don't think there's any sanitation issue, and I've had commercial beers do it too. The biggest problem is the aroma fades and gives it a disappointing flavor by that point.

I don't buy it. Going sour means you had an infection, which would not have happened if you properly sanitized. I have had beers that were in bottles for over a year that were NOT sour. If all of yours eventually do sour, then you have an issue someplace.

 

[charliefoxtrot]

Pretty much any beer will eventually go sour. Even the best sanitation is not sterilization, but the alcohol and hops keep whatever tiny amount of bacteria survives reproducing very slowly. Improper storage (say, in a hot room or car) greatly speeds up the process.

The only thing I've ever had actually turn to vinegar was some under-sulphured plum jerkum after nine months. My lower-gravity beers just get slightly sour after about a year. I've never had a bottle bomb or a gusher, so I don't think there's any sanitation issue, and I've had commercial beers do it too. The biggest problem is the aroma fades and gives it a disappointing flavor by that point.

Forgot to mention that alpha acid breakdown can taste sour, even if there's not one bacterium present.

 

[Golddiggie]

Forgot to mention that alpha acid breakdown can taste sour, even if there's not one bacterium present.

Again, 'sour beer' is an issue with something YOU did. It's not an inevitable conclusion to all beers. Properly brewed, fermented, bottled, stored, and such won't produce negative flavors. There are big beers that age for extended periods without having such flavors. Try a well made big barleywine for instance. There are bottles of several year old batches that are continuing to age without going sour.

 

[charliefoxtrot]

I don't buy it. Going sour means you had an infection, which would not have happened if you properly sanitized. I have had beers that were in bottles for over a year that were NOT sour. If all of yours eventually do sour, then you have an issue someplace.

It's a slight alteration in the flavor; I'm not saying that it turns into lambic.

I don't know whether it's alpha acid breakdown or bacteria, but in either case my low-abv (3-4%) beers lose their flavor and have an ever so slight tang after a year or so. And this is with literally all of them, so I highly doubt improper sanitation is to blame--everything gets boiled or bleached and I've never seen one other effect of infection.

Also my higher ABV beers last longer, and I doubt the low ABV beers would taste great after a year anyway.

 

[charliefoxtrot]

Again, 'sour beer' is an issue with something YOU did. It's not an inevitable conclusion to all beers. Properly brewed, fermented, bottled, stored, and such won't produce negative flavors. There are big beers that age for extended periods without having such flavors. Try a well made big barleywine for instance. There are bottles of several year old batches that are continuing to age without going sour.

Yes. But take a low ABV, low hop beer and try aging it in my slightly above room temperature laundry room for a year, and see how it tastes. We're talking apples and oranges, here.

 

[Golddiggie]

Yes. But take a low ABV, low hop beer and try aging it in my slightly above room temperature laundry room for a year, and see how it tastes. We're talking apples and oranges, here.

No, that's just [to be perfectly blunt/honest] being stupid. Low ABV, low hop beer is made to be consumed while younger than a higher ABV (any hop level) beer. We're talking beer, you're talking crazy.

 

[charliefoxtrot]

No, that's just [to be perfectly blunt/honest] being stupid. Low ABV, low hop beer is made to be consumed while younger than a higher ABV (any hop level) beer. We're talking beer, you're talking crazy.

That's my whole point. Every beer has a lifespan, whether it's six months or twenty years, and every beer has a peek moment when it tastes the best. And whether it's a miniscule contamination at bottling or the degradation of the alpha acids, all beer eventually will taste like crap. You can buy 100 year old wine (if you've got the cash), but there's a reason you never see 100 year old beer.

 

[Golddiggie]

That's my whole point. Every beer has a lifespan, whether it's six months or twenty years, and every beer has a peek moment when it tastes the best. And whether it's a miniscule contamination at bottling or the degradation of the alpha acids, all beer eventually will taste like crap. You can buy 100 year old wine (if you've got the cash), but there's a reason you never see 100 year old beer.

Most people are smart enough to drink a beer when it's best. Putting some away for later where it's too warm for such storage is just throwing beer away. IMO, that's just being unwise (being extremely kind here). It's like taking a great cut of beef, cooking it up right, then putting half the leftovers in the fridge and leaving the rest out in that warm room to 'see what happens'... :smack:

 

[charliefoxtrot]

Most people are smart enough to drink a beer when it's best. Putting some away for later where it's too warm for such storage is just throwing beer away. IMO, that's just being unwise (being extremely kind here). It's like taking a great cut of beef, cooking it up right, then putting half the leftovers in the fridge and leaving the rest out in that warm room to 'see what happens'... :smack:

I never lose more than a bottle or two of my own beer (which, being extremely kind here, I made and I can do whatever the hell I want with). I've had beers which I thought peaked that actually got better with time. If it's a beer I've never made before, whose recipe came out of my own head, how can I possibly know it's a genuine peak until the last bottle has gone as far as it could go?

You're really picking nits, now.

 

[JLem]

That's my whole point. Every beer has a lifespan, whether it's six months or twenty years, and every beer has a peek moment when it tastes the best. And whether it's a miniscule contamination at bottling or the degradation of the alpha acids, all beer eventually will taste like crap. You can buy 100 year old wine (if you've got the cash), but there's a reason you never see 100 year old beer.

This I agree with, which is why I prefaced my question with whether or not I understood your post. I do not agree that every beer will eventually turn sour, but, yes, every beer will turn south in terms of flavor/enjoyment after some time.

 

[charliefoxtrot]

This I agree with, which is why I prefaced my question with whether or not I understood your post. I do not agree that every beer will eventually turn sour, but, yes, every beer will turn south in terms of flavor/enjoyment after some time.

I'm talking on the scale of decades/centuries for properly handled bottles, but no bottle is flawless. The eventual degradation of the plastic on a crown cap, for example, provides an avenue for infection. The point is purely academic, but all beer will eventually fall to the bugs.