After Learning Much - A Good Batch of Cider

[torilen]

So, for those who don't know, I have been making alcohol for a few months now. Mostly wine, ginger beer, and lemon and lime wine (hard lemonade/limeade). I had tried cider at the start (really, apple wine, because I like to "feel" my alcohol), but none of them came out very well.

I have read a lot, made a few mistakes, learned quite a bit, and thought I'd try my hand one more time (perhaps one last time) at cider. I say last time, because if this batch didn't come out well, I wasn't going to waste the time or money on it any more in the future.

I got a 64oz bottle of plain ol' Sam's Choice apple juice - nice a cheap...but 100% pressed apples. I then took two granny smith apples and a pink lady apple...pureed them and boiled the puree in 4 cups of water for a while. I did this because, after buying some professional-made cider, I realized one of my problems was the taste. It just didn't taste right. My cider lacked that bright tanginess that store-bought cider has.

I didn't add any extra sugar...just the juice and the puree-water (after it was strained, of course). I just wanted to get a nice, pure apple flavor out of my cider/wine.

Well, I think this did the trick. It has a GREAT, vibrant apple flavor. It will definitely need to age a bit, and I'll add some stabilizer to help get rid of the yeast flavor (which are some things I have learned over time...go me). I think this will be a great batch of cider/wine, though.

I plan to backsweeten it with the following: one granny smith apple and one pink lady apple, pureed and boiled in 1-2 cups of water, possibly with a 1/2 cup of sugar (or some other sweetener...I may pull a couple of oz. to try different things, to see how they taste before a final decision).

 

[bernardsmith]

Hi torilen,
Why are you cooking your apples? You are setting pectins and the pectins will create a haze. Apples ferment quite naturally without any real intervention from you. At the very most all you need to do is either press the juice from the fruit or pulp the fruit...
The reason why commercial cider may have a "bright tanginess" is because cider apples are not the same as eating apples. They will be more acidic (the tang) and have more tannin and often have more sugar. Apple juice made for the soft drink market is not (I think) made with the same variety of apples. What you might do if your source of juice is aimed for unfermented apple juice is to add crab apples , but again, don't cook them unless you are making jam.

 

[Chet]

As far as what apples are used for pressing, it depends on where you get your cider. Any orchard that presses thier own will use what apples are in season and how many they have of each variety. Also the sugar content is varied by how late in the season picked and stage of ripeness. I always ask what they blended for my cider at pickup just to be curious. I picked up 3 times and had a different blend each time.

 

[torilen]

As for pressing apples to get the juice out - I have no easy way to do that. Not that I don't mind a little work for my cider, but I really just have NO way to do it. That is why I cooked them...to get the juice into the water. I know about it setting the pectin. I've never really cared much about hazy homemade drink, though. Heck, I don't even bother carbonating my brews.

As for getting orchard apples for a variety blend...I definitely plan to do that once it is season again. My wife and I pick fruit through the growing season for jams - strawberry, peach, blackberry, sometimes blueberry, apple, etc. I plan to pick extra for brewing this year.

(by the way - for a gallon batch of whatever...any suggestions on how much fruit I would need - it is hard to find recipes for gallon batches from fresh fruit).

Let me ask this, though. If I were not to cook the apples...could I puree them, add in water with the juice, and just leave the puree sitting in the fermentor while it ferments. I've read a lot of older recipes where you just let the fruit sit, but I've been afraid to do that. Doesn't the fruit go bad?

 

[madscientist451]

(by the way - for a gallon batch of whatever...any suggestions on how much fruit I would need - it is hard to find recipes for gallon batches from fresh fruit).

Let me ask this, though. If I were not to cook the apples...could I puree them, add in water with the juice, and just leave the puree sitting in the fermentor while it ferments. I've read a lot of older recipes where you just let the fruit sit, but I've been afraid to do that. Doesn't the fruit go bad?

I get about 2.5-3.5 gallons cider out of a bushel of apples. Some apples have more juice than others, plus I let my apples "sweat" that is dry out and age 30-60 days after harvesting. When using fruit like berriies or peaches, you'll probably be adding water to the fruit, I'd say start with 3lbs to the gallon and go from there.
I don't know if adding pureed apples to cheap juice will improve the flavor or not, but I'd say go ahead and try it. A better way would be to go on craigslist or ebay and get a Breville juicer. If you are going to make fruit wine/cider it would come in handy to have one. There's a Youtube video of some guys using one to make cider.

 

[1bottlerocket]

I have often thought about trying a juicer to get my apples juiced. When I look at the process it seems easier and quicker. Are there any downsides to doing this? Admittedly, I have not read up on it yet as the idea is just now spinning in my head.

 

[JF_HBrews]

You won't have a problem with fermenting on/with the pureed uncooked apples. I suppose there could be a very small chance of introducing wild yeast that might be riding on the fresh apples. A good wash of the fruit should minimize that risk. An alternative to adding the apples to you juice right away would be to wait 4-7 days after pitching your yeast so there is alcohol to help minimize the risk of any wild yeast/infection from adding fresh fruit.

 

[Chet]

I purchased a breville juicer off Craigs list and used to juice about 15 gallons. You have to give it a break and stop and clean it out some every few gallons. Worked great.

 

[MindenMan]

I have taken an apple or two and put them in the food processor w/o stem and seeds of course, and added it to my fermenting cider. In my mind the smaller the pieces of apple that are being added should have the most surface area to impart the most flavor into the must. It is amazing what one Granny Smith apple will do to the flavor of one gallon of the cider when finished. Once again it is up to your personal taste. I have never had the opportunity to use crabapples in the past, but I may have some available to me this year; if Yooper says they are the way to go, I will try it.

 

[Chet]

I made a crabapple, pear, apple mix and so far am very disappointed. It has no apple taste, very bitter. I added sugar to carb it and bottled. Carbed up good, tastes not good.

 

[MindenMan]

Chet, You don't mention how long ago you made the mixed fruit cider you mention.If you are drinking it at less than 6 months old, I am not surprised it is still bitter due to the crab apples taking a long time to mellow out.Yooper makes apple wine with crab apples and she waits a year before drinking it IIRC.

 

[Mismost]

The apple wine you made may get better given time...like a year. Mine was terrible at first, so I just stashed it in closet. Nine months or so later, I pulled a bottle and it had turned into nice white wine....we had a bottle of it last night in fact.

I've done two batches of Apple Cider using FAJC with no added sugar, both finished very dry with Notty yeast. Sweetened one batch and left one dry...the sweeter one had more apple flavor. Neither has much alcohol "feel" to me. Mehhh...they are OK, maybe I'm just not a cider guy....BUT, I am going to give plenty of time to sit...they may show me something later on!

 

[MindenMan]

As has been said hundreds of times before, if the cider (wine) is bone dry there will be less "apple flavor", and if it is lightly sweet there will be more apple flavor. The question really becomes at what specific gravity do you consider your beverage of choice sweet?
Apfelwine tastes no more like apples than red wine tastes like fresh grapes, that is why apple wine tastes most like a non-varietal white wine.

 

[torilen]

mindenman - I've found that to be completely true, and is one of my issues. I like my alcohol on the strong side - one of the reasons I started making my own (especially ginger beer and hard lemonade). I am beginning to realize, however, that you just can't do that with ciders/apple wine and wine made from juice and concentrates.

I made a wine a while ago...white grape cherry. At one point, it had a bit of alcohol to it, but still had a really nice fruity flavor and aroma. Unfortunately, I let it keep going, and while it turned out nice and strong, it lost almost all of that fruitiness, even after backsweetening with juice.

Same thing happened with this cider. I let it go too long, and it lost almost all of it's apple flavor and aroma. I even backsweetened it with some juice, and it didn't do much for that apple flavor. I'm going to have to work hard at finding that perfect place in the middle, where it is strong enough but still has some fruit flavor and aroma.

 

[Chet]

Mindenman, Thank you. I started the mixed fruit on batch 10/27 SG 1.068, secondary 11/20 SG 1.011, racked again 12/19 and bottled 12/29 FG 1.002, added 2 Tsp malic acid and 8 oz ajc. SG at 1.007 at bottling. Tasted in mid February. I will continue to wait.

 

[MindenMan]

Hey Culligan Man! (I always wanted to use that line) Okay, Chet... I seldom ever use my "large volume" fermenters, my buckets seldom get use unless it is fresh fruit season.
My point is I predominately use the jugs the cider/juice came in from the store; my fermentation's for ciders are done under pressure using the lid that came on the jug tightened down, but burped every day or two. I also ferment in the coolest place possible at the time, which may be an "unused" closet. I ferment cool and slow using a non-aggressive yeast, and I (now) always have drinks to share with the neighbors that they "can't believe" these beverages weren't made by a trained winemaker. To be honest, for me it is really humbling when I am paid a compliment of that caliber coming from a wine merchant. I want to be clear here, do I get a charge from being told by a man with a well trained palate he would buy my cider if it was for sale? Yes I do, but all I really know I learned around these forums from brewers and winemakers with collective centuries of experience. Even though Yooper doesn't have centuries of experience herself, her answers to my questions were always the right solution at the right time. Chet-P.S. wait until July (at least) before you open another bottle. Revvy talks about wasting great beverages by drinking them too young, and IMHO anything that is mostly or all fruit juice, needs at least 6 months before drinking, and high ABV beverages require even longer.