Affect of Yeast starter on my beer

[ramgeva]

Hi all
Just have a few questions regarding using a yeast starter, I watched some videos about it and they showed using extra light dry malt (2 cups water one cup malt).
My concerns are:
1. Will it affect the beer taste?
2. Will it affect FG?
3. Should I add it to my beer software (I'm using beersmith)? If yes how as part of the ingredients?
This is regarding a 5Gal batch of wheat beer.
10x

 

[Ridire]

I wondered the same thing. At first I thought it was such a small amount of additional "wort" that it wasn't worth worrying. But if you have a 2 liter starter, and a 5 gallon batch of beer, that starter constitutes 10% of the total wort (if my quick math is correct).

 

[Francus]

I make a starter and use 1/10 DME to volume for the starter. So, if I used 2 liters of water (2000 ml) then I use 200 grams of DME. It doesn't matter what type.

Loosely cover the starter with aluminum foil that has been sanitized. I use a spray bottle with cheap vodka for this.

In this phase you want to create yeast, not alcohol, so you want some oxygen to get in.

I usually time my starters so they are done and the yeast settled by the time I pitch. Then I pour off most of the beer and then swirl the slurry and put it in the beer. Yes, adding a half gallon (2 liters ish) of beer to a 5 or 10 gallon batch will affect the brew.

I also recommend a stir plate as it is more efficient for yeast propogation.

I do not add it to my brew software.

 

[thisisbeer]

I use a stir plate and start my starter say, Friday evening after 24-30 hours I put it in the fridge and crash it. Over night it will all settle out and you can pour the liquid off the top. I leave just enough to swirl the yeast to pour it out. This doesn't put any bad flavor in the beer. But proper pitching count will positively effect your beer. I use the same method mentioned above.

If you don't have a stir plate you have to make bigger starters and it takes longer. I highly recommend a stir plate.

It will affect the FG but I think it will make a bigger difference in high ABV beers to bring the FG down.

No need to add to brewing software.

 

[Ridire]

I make a starter and use 1/10 DME to volume for the starter. So, if I used 2 liters of water (2000 ml) then I use 200 grams of DME. It doesn't matter what type.

Loosely cover the starter with aluminum foil that has been sanitized. I use a spray bottle with cheap vodka for this.

In this phase you want to create yeast, not alcohol, so you want some oxygen to get in.

I usually time my starters so they are done and the yeast settled by the time I pitch. Then I pour off most of the beer and then swirl the slurry and put it in the beer. Yes, adding a half gallon (2 liters ish) of beer to a 5 or 10 gallon batch will affect the brew.

I also recommend a stir plate as it is more efficient for yeast propogation.

I do not add it to my brew software.

And you don't have any problems getting the yeast all out of the beaker? I have one of these and was going to use liquid yeast (probably a 2 liter starter) for my next beer.

 

[Francus]

And you don't have any problems getting the yeast all out of the beaker? I have one of these and was going to use liquid yeast (probably a 2 liter starter) for my next beer.

Nope. I have a 6000ml flask. It usually takes 4 days to ferment and settle (but great idea on cold crashing the starter, I'll be using that!). I pour off all but maybe a centimeter or two of beer above the yeast. Then swirl that baby until you see none is sticking to the bottom of the flask and dump it in!

 

[Ridire]

Nope. I have a 6000ml flask. It usually takes 4 days to ferment and settle (but great idea on cold crashing the starter, I'll be using that!). I pour off all but maybe a centimeter or two of beer above the yeast. Then swirl that baby until you see none is sticking to the bottom of the flask and dump it in!

Cool. I bought the flask and a stir plate about a month ago but I've been to chicken Sh!t to make a starter thus far. I think I'll give it a shot with the next brew coming up soon.

I also was thinking that this would be a one day thing. No problem with viability if you make the starter 4-5 days prior to brew day from what I'm reading here.

 

[Francus]

Oh, if you're using a stir plate, you'll want to use a magnet to pull the stir bar out of the flask before dumping the yeast in. Especially if you use a conical as the stir bar can jam up in the ball valve on the bottom.

 

[TheZymurgist]

A couple things to note. First, different yeasts take different amounts of time to flocculate, so it may take more than a day to fall out of suspension when cold crashing. I found this out when I tried to cold crash a saison yeast the night before a brew, and it didn't settle. Second, whether the starter has an effect on the final product really depends on what the final product is. I usually pitch the entire starter with no issues. If I was doing a simple 'lighter' beer, like a pale ale or a pilsner, I would cold crash, and decant the starter. If you pitch a full starter into a stout, you won't notice any effect.

 

[TheZymurgist]

Oh, if you're using a stir plate, you'll want to use a magnet to pull the stir bar out of the flask before dumping the yeast in. Especially if you use a conical as the stir bar can jam up in the ball valve on the bottom.

I just hold a refrigerator magnet to the bottom while I'm pouring. It holds the magnet in place, and is easier than trying to fish the stir bar out with the yeast and everything still inside.

Both work, just adding another suggestion.

 

[Ridire]

Oh, if you're using a stir plate, you'll want to use a magnet to pull the stir bar out of the flask before dumping the yeast in. Especially if you use a conical as the stir bar can jam up in the ball valve on the bottom.

My stir plate came with a magnet to put on the bottom of the flask to hold the stir bar in the flask when pitching. But will it hold while swirling the stuff up to pitch?

 

[TheZymurgist]

My stir plate came with a magnet to put on the bottom of the flask to hold the stir bar in the flask when pitching. But will it hold while swirling the stuff up to pitch?

There's no need to hold it in place while you're swirling. You just don't want it falling into the fermenter.

 

[SlanginDueces]

Or you can just do what I did with my first starter last week...be so excited that the starter actually looked like it was supposed to that you forget there was a magnet altogether. Now it is fermenting in my Munich Helles.

 

[Francus]

I tend to take mine out at the start of the brew session.

Not because it is easier or anything, but because there have been numerous occasions where I have been ever so slightly inebriated by the end of brewing and forgotten to take it out.

I know. Hard to believe, right?

 

[SlanginDueces]

Alcohol may have been a contributing factor

 

[kombat]

I just hold a refrigerator magnet to the bottom while I'm pouring.

After dumping my stir bar down the drain, I made a little tag ("STIR BAR INSIDE") that I affix to my starter flask with an elastic band to remind myself to use the keeper magnet before pitching the yeast or cleaning the flask.

The elastic band also helps keep a good seal around the foil covering the opening of the flask.

 

[LovesIPA]

Thanks guys, you reminded me that I forgot to take the stir bar out of the flask. I just started cold crashing it a few minutes ago.

I use a stirplate and typically I only let the starter go for 18 to 24 hours tops. Maybe you would need more time if you're doing the occasional shake method.

 

[Ridire]

Thanks guys, you reminded me that I forgot to take the stir bar out of the flask. I just started cold crashing it a few minutes ago.

I use a stirplate and typically I only let the starter go for 18 to 24 hours tops. Maybe you would need more time if you're doing the occasional shake method.

18 - 24 hours and then cold crash overnight or 18-24 hours including cold crash?

 

[Francus]

I use a stirplate and typically I only let the starter go for 18 to 24 hours tops. Maybe you would need more time if you're doing the occasional shake method.

I recommend going at least 2 days (48 hours) or more to give the yeast time to increase their numbers as much as possible. The more yeast cells the quicker fermentation will take off. And that is the main reason for doing a starter.

I usually start mine 4 days before brewing then 18 hours before pitch I turn off the stir plate and let the bad boys settle. I may start cold crashing, but I will stick to 3 days of fermenting for my starter.

However, to each their own.

 

[kombat]

I only run the starter on a stir plate for 18 - 24 hours. After that, they're done, and there's really no point in continuing to agitate them.

I run it for 24 hours, then cold-crash for 48 hours, decant, and pitch. If I were brewing on Saturday, I'd make the starter Wednesday night, run it till Thursday night then put it in the fridge, then take it out Saturday afternoon to warm up when I start brewing. Then 4-5 hours later, decant and pitch.

 

[thisisbeer]

I really see no activity after 24 hours with a stir plate the yeast will only multiply to a certain point. This depends on the amount of liquid and fermentable sugar in the starter. After the yeast is done it will start to drop out of suspension. Well they wont drop because of the stir plate, but you know what I mean.

Also the starter isn't used to make fermentation faster. The yeast will still multiply when added to the wort. The starter is used to reduce stress on yeast and add the right amount of yeast character to the beer. That's how I understand it anyway. Faster fermentation is just something that comes along with it. Plus you don't want to under OR over pitch the yeast.

I should have said earlier it does depend on the yeast strain on how long you have to crash. Most of the strains I use (WLP001) drop fast enough that a 12 hour cold crash, after the 24 hours on the stir plate, is plenty to drop 95% of the yeast out of suspension. Other strains will vary a lot I would imagine.

This allows just about all my starters to start Friday evening and be ready to pitch on Sunday. Visibly you can easily see double or more yeast in the bottom of the flask after cold crashing it.

 

[Francus]

OK, you almost have me convinced to give it a whirl. Anything to shorten up the timeframe. But I do have a question. Are you saying 18 to 24 hours after you pitch? Or 18 to 24 hours after you see activity in the starter?

 

[thisisbeer]

Sorry. After 18-24 hours I don't see any more activity in my starter. This has been true with all my starters so far. After I pitch I see signs of activity very quickly. Just make sure you let the yeast warm up to the wort temp before pitching. You can let the yeast warm up after you poor the liquid off of the top, leaving just enough liquid to swirl the yeast into suspension. If the temp is far off you will have a longer lag time, 12-18 hours or so.

 

[Francus]

I usually have a 12 to 18 hour lag time. And I try and put my yeast out to warm up for at least 3 hours if not more. Either way, there's some of the time discrepancy accounted for

 

[LovesIPA]

18 - 24 hours and then cold crash overnight or 18-24 hours including cold crash?

18 - 24 hours and then cold crash for however long you want. You can do it in as little as a few hours. There will still be yeast in suspension but 95% will have settled out in the first few hours.

I recommend going at least 2 days (48 hours) or more to give the yeast time to increase their numbers as much as possible. The more yeast cells the quicker fermentation will take off. And that is the main reason for doing a starter.

The yeast are done reproducing after 18-24 hours.

While the main reason for a starter is to increase the yeast population, the more yeast you have the quicker fermentation starts is not quite true.

 

[ramgeva]

Thank you all for the valuable information.

 

[Zigs6]

This is if you are using a stir plate though. Big difference. According to John Palmer and Jamil on their starter episode of Brew Strong, when using a stir plate you should have adequate reproduction after about 12 hours but 12-36 hours is the norm. Anything after the 36 hour mark, there really isn't much of a point and there is no more growth or at least so little that it won't have any affect. I always shoot for 24 hours knowing that it might be plus or minus a few hours and I don't have to sweat it. If you don't have a stir plate going, I would assume 48 hours is plenty but I've never made a starter without a stir plate so I can't really speak with experience on that.