Aeration System Introducing lead and Lead Compounds into wort

[Mekchu]

Just ordered online then picked up a Brewmaster aeration system from MLHBS. Was a little taken back when I read the Proposition 65 warning label. Might not have gone this route if I had known at the time I ordered. Poked around a little, but did not find a discussion on HBT or info on p65warning.ca.gov regarding the source of the lead, relative risk or means to mitigate. Is this a matter of taking something designed for one purpose (aquariums) and using it for something else (consumable product)?

Do we care? Or do we figure we will all die from cirrhosis of the liver anyway? I'm in my 60's, so my exposure may not be too critical, but what about younger friends and family members?

 

[drgonzo2k2]

Might just be the jaded Californian in me, but I wouldn't worry about it. Literally almost everything out here has those labels on it, to the point that most folks just pass right by them any more.

Here is a Popular Science article on it for further reading if you're interested.

 

[BrewZer]

California is notorious for declaring just about everything you might ever touch, breathe, eat or drink as dangerous.

 

[day_trippr]

Not seeing much to pick on, but is it possible that air "stone" is not made of sintered stainless steel? Maybe sintered bronze or brass? Those materials often has a tiny lead content to aid tooling...

Cheers!

 

[yoop89]

If not the air stone, it is likely the solder used to connect the power cord to the pump. P65 warnings don’t usually take usage into consideration. If it has any lead products in the BOM then it’s going to be listed as it can make it into your body.

 

[day_trippr]

Wow. Paranoia Strikes Deep out West

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

P65? i'd be surprised if i bought something that didn't have it....

 

[Jim R]

You would be better off anyway with a cheap Benzomatic oxygen canister and a small regulator. The last study I remember showed that an aquarium type pump was very similar to simply shaking the wort (around 8 ppm of O2) in terms of oxygenation. An oxygen canister through your same stone for 60 sec was significantly better at about 12 ppm.

 

[bracconiere]

Benzomatic oxygen canister

just remember those oxygen tanks have the P65 warning too....

 

[NGD]

Might just be the jaded Californian in me, but I wouldn't worry about it. Literally almost everything out here has those labels on it, to the point that most folks just pass right by them any more.

Here is a Popular Science article on it for further reading if you're interested.

Same here. There are p65 warning on literally almost everything but fruit and vegetables. Hell, in 2018 there was a push to add a P65 warning to all coffee sold in the state due to small amounts of acrylamide produced during the roasting process. This also applies to any foods fried or toasted.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, when I had an O2 meter for a month one of the many things I found was how fast the straight O2 I injected into my typical 5.5 gallons in the fermentor (12 ppm target) got brought down to pretty much zero ppm by the yeast within 3-4 hours on the three batches I tested. At the time it almost made me do a second round of O2 3 hours post pitch, but the counter to that approach - oxidation of organics - kept me from pulling the trigger.

I suppose an aquarium pump with an absolute filter would have an incremental advantage in that it could be cheaply and easily run unattended for a solid 6 hours, maintaining ~8 ppm to the end, while trying to do that with bottled O2 would be challenging for most and eventually more expensive...

Cheers!

 

[Mekchu]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts. P65 does not appear helpful. If everything is dangerous then nothing is. p65 does not seem to provide enough information to measure and understand the presumed hazard. I spent my career in food and agriculture. I was not a food safety expert, but I did learn from the good folks at FDA that no level of lead consumption is considered safe. When I read the warning label I assumed the lead was going into the wort, but as yoop89 pointed out that was not necessarily the case. The warning could be based on lead solder, which of course does not come into contact with the wort. So, my take away is p65 is not helpful (and maybe an aquarium pump is not effective for aeriation anyway?).

 

[Vale71]

So basically the warning is telling you that if you were to somehow eat the pump you could be exposed to lead?
That's a whole new level of nanny state, the "demented nanny" state...

 

[Bramling Cross]

The company I work for attaches Prop 65 cards to everything we sell because it's just easier to cover your bases that way.

By the way, we make guitars, so it's good to know we're fighting the good fight against finger cancer.

 

[DarrellQ]

P65 reminds me of a construction site that I live next to. It's constant, beep, beep, beep all day long from trucks and equipment backing-up. I've often wondered if the folks working there pay any attention to it at all since they must just tune it out after a while. Same for P65, I would bet.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

California should just ban pregnancy. Life causes death, so don't make new babies.

 

[Dancy]

You would be better off anyway with a cheap Benzomatic oxygen canister and a small regulator. The last study I remember showed that an aquarium type pump was very similar to simply shaking the wort (around 8 ppm of O2) in terms of oxygenation. An oxygen canister through your same stone for 60 sec was significantly better at about 12 ppm.

I was part of a recent thread discussing this. Given the high inconsistency I’ve experienced with those “cheap” oxygen canisters, ($10 where I live) I switched to an aquarium pump ($12) and run it for 5 minutes based on recommendations. Maybe I have a bad regulator but I’d get several uses on one tank then petered out on the 3rd use for my last tank. I didn’t want to spend $30 - $35 for a new regulator. I like my hobby but sometimes I get tired of being nickel and dimed to death by it. If I brewed more, I’d buy a big oxygen tank like some do.

 

[madscientist451]

If you haven't used it, just return it. I've been brewing for years and the only oxygenation my beer gets is when its dumped from the kettle into the fermenter through a funnel. A good healty, active pitch of yeast is the key to a good fermentation, you just don't need any aeration or oxygenation equipment unless you are doing batches that are so large you can't easily dump from the kettle to the fermenter.

 

[TheBluePhantom]

The company I work for attaches Prop 65 cards to everything we sell because it's just easier to cover your bases that way.

By the way, we make guitars, so it's good to know we're fighting the good fight against finger cancer.

No, that is good to know. I will have to remember that next time I eat a guitar.

 

[BigDave1303]

I work for the Ambulance service. Years ago we used to have a regular patient with COPD who insisted on using her own oxygen cylinders. She refused to use ours telling us that we carried the 'wrong type of oxygen' despite being medical grade. I asked her 'how many types of oxygen are there then?'
She reckoned hers had more negatively charged particles. We just went along with her theory & it saved us using up ours anyway

Well, at least it doesn't contain nuts!

 

[Jim R]

I was part of a recent thread discussing this. Given the high inconsistency I’ve experienced with those “cheap” oxygen canisters, ($10 where I live) I switched to an aquarium pump ($12) and run it for 5 minutes based on recommendations. Maybe I have a bad regulator but I’d get several uses on one tank then petered out on the 3rd use for my last tank. I didn’t want to spend $30 - $35 for a new regulator. I like my hobby but sometimes I get tired of being nickel and dimed to death by it. If I brewed more, I’d buy a big oxygen tank like some do.

I found that the best way to use the O2 cannisters and regulator was to remove it from the canister when not in use. Then when I oxygenate my wort I just barely turn the regulator on till I start to get some bubbles through the stone and then oxygenate for 45-60 seconds. When I opened up the valve too far I would waste a lot of oxygen. Now I get at least 6-7 batches out of every $10-12 cannister. When I am done, I have about 4-6 inches of foam on top of the wort compared to a few bubbles with shaking or with an aquarium pump.

Again, most of the studies I have read show that you will get something on the order of 50% more oxygen in the wort compared to pumping room air through an aquarium pump. Of course, the beer will ferment without adding additional oxygen but the yeast will most likely ferment faster by providing them a better oxygen environment. For about $1-2 a batch after buying the regulator and the air stone, it makes sense for me.

 

[Novacor]

The company I work for attaches Prop 65 cards to everything we sell because it's just easier to cover your bases that way.

By the way, we make guitars, so it's good to know we're fighting the good fight against finger cancer.

I think I read that there are a lot of companies who do that. Rather than spend the time and money to be 100% sure that every single piece and part is in compliance they just slap the warning sticker on and be done with it.

 

[Dancy]

@Jim R - Thanks for the input — maybe I’ll give it another shot

 

[Mekchu]

For what it's worth, I wrote to Brewmaster and asked the nature of the lead exposure through the aeration system. I'll let you know if/when I get a response.

 

[NGD]

P65 reminds me of a construction site that I live next to. It's constant, beep, beep, beep all day long from trucks and equipment backing-up. I've often wondered if the folks working there pay any attention to it at all since they must just tune it out after a while. Same for P65, I would bet.

I can only speak for my family. Those warnings are so prevalent that we pay zero attention to them. They are on everything. Without getting into politics; prop 65 was essentially a way add fee’s for doing business in the state. The coffee example I gave earlier was granted an exemption otherwise every bag of starbucks would also have a p65 logo.
@Mekchu Due diligence is always recommended, but don’t lose any sleep over it.

 

[jrgtr42]

The company I work for attaches Prop 65 cards to everything we sell because it's just easier to cover your bases that way.

By the way, we make guitars, so it's good to know we're fighting the good fight against finger cancer.

I've routinely seen things that are not for comsunmption, or produce anything that would be consumed, inhaled, etc with those warnings. Like someone else said, if everything is dangerous, then nothing is.

And as an amateur musician, I'm curious as to which guitar maker you work for... (if you're comfortable answering...)

 

[Reneauj62]

Just ordered online then picked up a Brewmaster aeration system from MLHBS. Was a little taken back when I read the Proposition 65 warning label. Might not have gone this route if I had known at the time I ordered. Poked around a little, but did not find a discussion on HBT or info on p65warning.ca.gov regarding the source of the lead, relative risk or means to mitigate. Is this a matter of taking something designed for one purpose (aquariums) and using it for something else (consumable product)?

Do we care? Or do we figure we will all die from cirrhosis of the liver anyway? I'm in my 60's, so my exposure may not be too critical, but what about younger friends and family members? View attachment 715588View attachment 715589

Just ordered online then picked up a Brewmaster aeration system from MLHBS. Was a little taken back when I read the Proposition 65 warning label. Might not have gone this route if I had known at the time I ordered. Poked around a little, but did not find a discussion on HBT or info on p65warning.ca.gov regarding the source of the lead, relative risk or means to mitigate. Is this a matter of taking something designed for one purpose (aquariums) and using it for something else (consumable product)?

Do we care? Or do we figure we will all die from cirrhosis of the liver anyway? I'm in my 60's, so my exposure may not be too critical, but what about younger friends and family members? View attachment 715588View attachment 715589

Proposition 65 is and always has been a joke. This is a good intentioned law that went very bad...That sticker is on EVERYTHING. And I do mean everything like cars, homes, RO systems, Food, transportation, anything aerosol, computers, printers, TVs, aroma therapy, desks, lawnmowers, heaters, light bulb.....etc... This truly the Little boy that cried wolf law... It's on everything so it means nothing.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I use an o2 cylinder, ~25 batches so far on the first can. The regulator+stone was about $35 but the cans last a long time if you're using it correctly. There are gauges available that measure the volume dispensed, that would be a great investment. No over/under use, and one less variable to worry about. In time it will even pay for itself in gas savings.

 

[Dancy]

@ Jayjay 1976 — Do you take the regulator off between uses? I’m wondering if I have a slow leak. My last Benzomatic tank was good for only 3 uses!

 

[Camelot Legends]

I don’t take my tank off the regulator and only get 3-4 batches. Looks like I’m going to start and see if it makes a difference.

 

[Jayjay1976]

@ Jayjay 1976 — Do you take the regulator off between uses? I’m wondering if I have a slow leak. My last Benzomatic tank was good for only 3 uses!

Yes, I store it separately but only because it's too tall to fit on the shelf with the regulator attached. Guess that was just lucky for me.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Crack the valve open just enough see the slightest bit of churning on the surface. I set a timer for 2.5 minutes and shift the stone around every 15 seconds or so to make sure all of the wort gets exposed to the stream of fine bubbles. Make sure you are using a fine enough stone. I'm not 100% sure but I think mine is .5 micron and my beers are awesome

 

[Nate R]

My $0.02...
#1- i too would use up a red disposable canister after only a few uses. I would always remove it from the regulator between uses. I think if one uses a wand and stone it lasts longer. When i use my spike conical and carb stone, i think it requires more pressure/force... which is more gas.
I am of the opinion that the amount of oxygen needed per 5 gallon batch is about 3 cans of that disposable brand.

At any rate, i moved to a steel tank of food grade oxygen... expensive, but it should last me forever now.
Side note- spike has some good info on their micron size and research (they use a 5 micron). I am too lazy to link it, but basically they noticed no difference.

To me there is no doubt the oxygen helps the yeast. Pitch rate too, temp control... all important parts of the processs. Ymmv.

#2- i am a California native. We call it Calunicornia now. When i rented cars, we had prop 65 on the door to the lobby. Because guess what... cars use gas, and gas can cause cancer.

It is on just about anything you imagine out here. As stated above... NO ONE pays attention to it.

This state is a JOKE. People are leaving in droves. Just google a one way uhaul into California, and a one-way out of California. It is about 10x the cost to leave here.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I've routinely seen things that are not for comsunmption, or produce anything that would be consumed, inhaled, etc with those warnings. Like someone else said, if everything is dangerous, then nothing is.

And as an amateur musician, I'm curious as to which guitar maker you work for... (if you're comfortable answering...)

Let's just say we're big into birds.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Anyone looking at buying o2 gear, here's a great deal on a 0.5 micron diffuser.

Stainless Steel Diffusion Stone, 0.5 Micron Aeration Stone, Carbonation Stone With 1/4" Barb For Brewing (0.5 Micron)

 

[Spruceman]

Is this guy serious? or did he just land here after living on Mars for 60 yrs?
I quit using aeration equipment long ago anyway.

 

[SFC Rudy]

In California they have warning labels on the air you breath because it might give you cancer.

 

[Nate R]

As of 1/1/2021, a new law requires any cancer warning label with adhesive to also have... a warning label that the adhesive is known to cause cancer....
Yes- we are now putting warning labels ON the warning labels!
(Ok- not yet... but anyone wanna bet the over/under before we do? I'll take the under!)

 

[BrewZer]

As of 1/1/2021, a new law requires any cancer warning label with adhesive to also have... a warning label that the adhesive is known to cause cancer....
Yes- we are now putting warning labels ON the warning labels!
(Ok- not yet... but anyone wanna bet the over/under before we do? I'll take the under!)

Reminds me of this sign...

 

[dwhite60]

Once this Prop 65 mess started in California the company I worked for simply stopped doing business with people in California. Too much paperwork.

Lead exposure from that device is probably almost non-existant but Prop 65 requires that label to sell it in California.