advice on AG build

[burntchef]

So I am going out of the gate building a tiered AG set up. Am using 15 gallon ss with taps to gravity feed. Will transfer wort to fermenter with pail for now. Any thing anyone who has put one together can recommend would be greatly appreciated.
Eric

 

[mredge73]

You got to give us a little more info on what you want to do.
There are very simple systems that have been built out of what people can put together in short notice.
And there are very complex fully automatic systems as well. We kinda need you to steer this conversation.
1, 2, or 3 vessel system? What is your motivation to go gravity feed? How do you plan on controlling mash temp?
Gas or electric? etc...


I will present this; here is my retired 2-vessel system that utilizes one pump and 2 burners:

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I use a cooler on folding sawhorses for my mashtun, with a pump to go from the hot liquor tank to the cooler. Then gravity drain/sparge into the boil kettle (on the burner). With my anvil burner there is enough room to get my fermentors under the boil kettle spigot. At the end of the day, the sawhorses and table get put away and my garage is all neat and tidy.

With the cooler, my mash temps lose 1-2 degees over an hour, which is negligible. I may upgrade to a RIMS system for the ability to do step mashes, but that's a bit down the road.

In retrospect I would have gone with a single vessel recirculating electric brew-in-a-bag.

 

[burntchef]

I was motivated to use a gravity feed system to eliminate a pump=less complicated. I am planning a 3 vessel system with 2 burners. I plan to keep my mash temp up by insulating the tun. Having a food service back ground is compelling me to go all ss, even the fermenter. Ease of cleaning and sanitation being the driving force. I am also going straight to corny kegs as I do not want the work of bottles. By using the ss vessels my plan was to be able to add or subtract process systems as needed as I move forward. If I were to go more automatic down the road, the only scrap would be the rack for gravity. Comments?
Thanx in advance
Eric

 

[mredge73]

Gravity feed on a 3 vessel isn't very practical as you will need an 8' later to see what is going on up top. The biggest benefit on a gravity feed system is how easy it is to fly sparge.
If you plan to batch sparge, it is much simpler to run a single tier system with a single pump. The pump also enables you to use more efficient plate chillers, whirlpool the BK, and circulate the Mash.

But if you must, you need a 40-60K btu burner up top to heat your HLT and a 80-150K btu burner on bottom for your BK.
For a 10 gallon batch you need a minimum of 10 gallon HLT, 15 gallon mash tun, and 15 gallon BK.
I recommend the camlock fittings for your silicone hoses, brewhardware has the high flow versions that work better than the older styles.
DIY bulkheads on your kettles are not very hard; wield-less fittings work pretty well and silver soldering is pretty easy to learn.

As far as piece wising this going forward; I have a pile of parts I don't use anymore that include the stand pictured above.
I have extra chillers, pots, burners, stands, rims tube, and extra controllers I don't use any more. So from experience I don't recommend this path.
Whatever your dream home brewery is, I would advise to work toward that and save yourself lots of money and hardship.

 

[burntchef]

Thanx for the advice, I asked for it. I am going to rethink some stuff based on your comments and try to make the right choice. lol I think this will clearly be a case of not knowing what you really want until you do not have it. I will keep you all posted.
Eric

 

[mredge73]

There are over 400 pages here to get you thinking:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=46578

I ultimately went with an electric BCS controlled single pump HERMs system after much trial and error.

 

[MaryB]

3 tier all gravity fed including into the fermenting bucket straight from the boil kettle. Top of the HLT is at 74 inches so I just use a measuring system to fill it with sparge water. HLT is 10 gallon(need to upgrade this), mash tun 15gal, BK 15 gallon.

 

[Transamguy77]

I also went 3 tier gravity to keep it simple, I do agree with mredge in that knowing your endgame will help your build now.

Also yes your top vessel will be about 8ft high, I know because mine is, but the top vessel is only for sparge water so you only need to know the level and brewhardware has a great weld less sight glass kit.

The only thing I would change is the space between the levels they didn’t need to be so far apart but I didn’t really know that till I brewed on it, not really that big of a deal.

Here is mine.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1510385628.973513.jpg

 

[burntchef]

Thank you all for the pics and advice. I have to start somewhere and the tiered gravity system is it. I may move on to a different system later but for now it is a place to start. My kegging system should be here soon, then it is on to the pots and the fermenter, then the stand. wil keep reading here everyday and post pics as I move along.
Eric

 

[eric19312]

Honestly I love my pumps. I do have a 2 tier system and use gravity to spage but everything else gets pumped. I recirc my mash tun and whirlpool my bk in addition to moving wort from station to station. I could get by with one pump but really it is nice having 2. I’ve got my mash tun rotometer on one and it doesn’t like pellet hops lol. Other pump is dedicated to bk/whirlpool.

 

[Cyclman]

Seville classics 18" square shelves are awesome.

 

[jcav]

I ended up upgrading two years ago and I built this Kal clone with keggles. It is a 3 vessel electric herms system. Best thing I ever did, this system makes great beer!

 

[MaryB]

Pumps add cleaning time... with a brew day taking 5 1/2 to 6 1/2 hours depending on how much I do the day before no thanks!

 

[jmcquesten]

Here's mine. While I do have a pump, I use gravity to drain from the mash to the boil. And can transfer from the boil to a fermenter if needed.

 

[jmcquesten]

Picture didn't load.

View attachment 1510495046472.jpg

 

[RM-MN]

Your vision for a 3 tier brewing setup is wonderful...if you like to spend money and time. I'd prefer to spend the money on raw ingredients and my time doing other things. That's why I have stuck to BIAB. I can make up a batch and have everything clean and put away in less than 4 hours. Your money, your time, your decision.

 

[eric19312]

I've been three vessel since first AG batch, started batch sparge in a cooler, now doing fly sparge through a direct fire recirculating mash tun. Over time I've gradually stepped up my batch size from original 5 gallons where my BK was a 10 gallon pot, to 15 gallons where my 10 gallon pot became the HLT and used a 15.5 gallon bk and am now moving up to 15 gallon batches. Did 3 so far with topping up water in the fermentors but have a 20 gallon bk on the way and will move my 15 gallon BK to HLT duty and finally retire my 10 gallon kettle.

I do like the idea of BIAB for starting brewers who are at the 5 gallon batch stage but am not sure it would be all that practical at 15 gallon. I guess if I had a 25 gallon kettle and a power winch maybe it would work but doesn't sound any easier that what I am doing.

I do hear frequently about the time savings for BIAB which I think is mainly due to the difference in time between sparging but believe this is generally overstated. Say I take 60 minutes to lauter fly sparging and 5 minutes after lautering is done I am at a boil. I can achieve that 5 min boil because the BK was heating as soon as I had about 4 gallons in there. If I were doing full volume BIAB I would still need 30-45 minutes to get the full volume of wort from 168F mash out to a rolling boil. I suppose I could get a heat stick or two to move that along faster. I could also batch sparge with my current system and cut lauter time to 30 minutes...I think I would be back to right on top of BIAB timeline but I prefer the leisurely pace and hands off brewing of fly sparge and like @RM-MN says its my time.

I do hear all the time from BIABers about the woe of cleaning mash tuns. I've never found the mash tun to be difficult to clean. Might be a design issue but it is always clean and stored during chilling (I use the warm water from my IC to clean the mash tun).

So again...yes for first stepping into AG BIAB sounds like a great way to go. Start with that 10 gallon kettle and make 5 gallon batches. You can always use that 10 gallon pot as the HLT in your future 15 gallon three vessel system.

 

[burntchef]

Thanks for all the great stories of your journeys! I am just starting mine and will let you all know how I get on. I am weighing all your thoughts and suggestions and still am in the planning stage. All good plans evolve and I am sure mine will.
Eric

 

[burntchef]

As a side note, I am only mission driven to a point. That point being brew my own beer and like it. I fall squarely in the camp of enjoying the journey/ and the beer along the way! So the journey begins.
Eric

 

[MaryB]

BIAB can take more malt to achieve the same OG as fly sparging. With the price of one of my main malts already stupid high(Golden Promise in 55 pound bags and $69) my time is worth less. Besides, I am retired, whats another hour to fly sparge? Now an extra hour AFTER I have carried 2 heavy fermenters into the house is something I do not need! Fly sparging is low effort! Pump cleaning then worrying that pump is really clean?

 

[RM-MN]

BIAB can take more malt to achieve the same OG as fly sparging. With the price of one of my main malts already stupid high(Golden Promise in 55 pound bags and $69) my time is worth less. Besides, I am retired, whats another hour to fly sparge? Now an extra hour AFTER I have carried 2 heavy fermenters into the house is something I do not need! Fly sparging is low effort! Pump cleaning then worrying that pump is really clean?

BIAB can also take less malt to achieve the same OG as fly sparging. So much depends on the milling of the grain.

 

[eric19312]

BIAB can take more malt to achieve the same OG as fly sparging. With the price of one of my main malts already stupid high(Golden Promise in 55 pound bags and $69) my time is worth less. Besides, I am retired, whats another hour to fly sparge? Now an extra hour AFTER I have carried 2 heavy fermenters into the house is something I do not need! Fly sparging is low effort! Pump cleaning then worrying that pump is really clean?

I agree fly sparring is low effort but don’t get the concerns about pump cleaning. Pump some hot pow through there while cleaning other things. I use two pumps and just don’t see any issues with cleaning them.

 

[wyowolf]

For years I did it the hard way with cooler and turkey fryer. After the new house I was all set to go electric. I thought I wanted a 3V system. after some research I came across eBIAB. much cheaper and less stuff to clean up... and I can brew any time of day year or night no matter the weather... I went with Colorado Brew System, but I wish I had chose someone else instead...but I would still do eBIAB.

 

[Roland_deschain]

I have been doing BIAB since I started all grain. I double crush my grains and batch sparge in a second vessel and I regularly get 80-85% efficiency. My average brew day is 4 hours with clean-up.

 

[MaryB]

Only thing I have left to clean at end of the boil and cooling is the immersion chiller and the boil kettle. Pumps would add to the workload.

I agree fly sparring is low effort but don’t get the concerns about pump cleaning. Pump some hot pow through there while cleaning other things. I use two pumps and just don’t see any issues with cleaning them.