ADVANCED BREWERS SUB GROUP

[CodeSection]

That's true- we tend to monitor the brew science forum more closely for those types of posts because anecdotal evidence of "everyone loves my free beer" doesn't equate with "my beer is great".

Perhaps, but definitely not absolute. Strange that "Brew Science" would have more of those posts than other forums.

 

[Big Monk]

What about process? Cheers

Process is overrated.

 

[mongoose33]

Process is overrated.

No, it's not. Process is everything. The best recipe in the world cannot overcome bad process.

Seems odd coming from a LODO guy.

 

[Big Monk]

No, it's not. Process is everything. The best recipe in the world cannot overcome bad process.

Seems odd coming from a LODO guy.

Dude.

Let me pull my tongue out of my cheek long enough to say, “You serious Clark?”

C’mon man. You guys have to lighten up! Process is OBVIOUSLY everything. A brewer with good process and old Briess malts will make better beer than a brewer with poor process and 1 day old Weyermann grains.

It’s elementary my dear Mongoose.

 

[mongoose33]

Dude.

Let me pull my tongue out of my cheek long enough to say, “You serious Clark?”

C’mon man. You guys have to lighten up! Process is OBVIOUSLY everything. A brewer with good process and old Briess malts will make better beer than a brewer with poor process and 1 day old Weyermann grains.

It’s elementary my dear Mongoose.

This is exactly the kind of stuff @Blazinlow86 was talking about, and which Yooper said moderators endeavor to eliminate.

Maybe on the second, +1 on the first.

 

[Big Monk]

This is exactly the kind of stuff @Blazinlow86 was talking about, and which Yooper said moderators endeavor to eliminate.

Maybe on the second, +1 on the first.

I don’t get it. Are you admitting you have no sense of humor?!

 

[madscientist451]

I’d settle for a sub-forum where people know the difference between your and you’re, and there and their and they’re. But that’s not likely either!

Grammer and speling is dull subjeks...
Can't we talk about making skeeter pee instead?

 

[bob1852]

This is exactly the kind of stuff @Blazinlow86 was talking about, and which Yooper said moderators endeavor to eliminate.

It's only trolling when some one else does it.

 

[MaxStout]

You have to use the Potter Stewart method to determine if it's trolling.

As for a "Pro" category (or subcategory), why not give it a go? If it starts getting trolly and people misbehave, then the mods can decide if it needs to be taken down.

 

[Bilsch]

It will just end up in a dusty corner next to the LODO forum.

 

[Big Monk]

It will just end up in a dusty corner next to the LODO forum.

Who you callin’ dusty?!

 

[applescrap]

You have to use the Potter Stewart method to determine if it's trolling.

As for a "Pro" category (or subcategory), why not give it a go? If it starts getting trolly and people misbehave, then the mods can decide if it needs to be taken down.

I took this from that......

This simple phrase, embedded in a plurality opinion, carries with it many of the conflicts and inconsistencies that continue to plague American obscenity law. In effect, “I know it when I see it” can still be paraphrased and unpacked as: “I know it when I see it, and someone else will know it when they see it, but what they see and what they know may or may not be what I see and what I know, and that’s okay.”

— William T. Goldberg

 

[Pkrd]

You'll obviously need a beard to enter that forum (sorry @Yooper). How do we enforce that? Signed letter from your free range artisan barber?

 

[applescrap]

Dude.

Let me pull my tongue out of my cheek long enough to say, “You serious Clark?”

C’mon man. You guys have to lighten up! Process is OBVIOUSLY everything. A brewer with good process and old Briess malts will make better beer than a brewer with poor process and 1 day old Weyermann grains.

It’s elementary my dear Mongoose.

I couldn't disagree more, process is OBVIOUSLY way overrated and I remain certain any fool, child, etc...can make beer. Furthermore my challenge stands. You can use whatever process you want but I get to pick your ingredients and recipe. I remain all but certain your process will not overcome the recipe and ingredients. That said I do think lodo matters and respect your work on that. Also I do enjoy your posts and like learning from then.

Btw, I thought that was funny coming from you and got it right away.

 

[Big Monk]

I couldn't disagree more, process is OBVIOUSLY way overrated and I remain certain any fool, child, etc...can make beer. Furthermore my challenge stands. You can use whatever process you want but I get to pick your ingredients and recipe. I remain all but certain your process will not overcome the recipe and ingredients.

Btw, I thought that was funny coming from you and got it right away.

I would take your challenge any day of the week.

And thank you for acknowledging the obvious humor in my statement!

 

[applescrap]

I would take your challenge any day of the week.

And thank you for acknowledging the obvious humor in my statement!

You quoted me to quick! I threw some props in for the obvious great mind that you are. Geez though, thought you would at least fight me on recipe.

Ok, I need some help here, how about a cloying crystal heavy ipa with stale clearance hops. Man they had some at this lhbs, I literally almost threw up in my mouth at the slightest sniff of them. With your lodo process I think you could really preserve that rotten smell. Maybe just 100 percent crystal 120? Idk? Need a little help here. How about 100 percent black patent, no hops, and really expired yeast. Wait, I could go anywhere here now, right, how about refried beans, crystal 120, and cabbage with a little herring mixed in. I'll use, idk, founders kbs. That's one of my favorite and we will give them to unsuspecting people and ask for judgement. Are you still that certain?!

Ok same recipe you say, stale yeast, barfy hops, Florida tap water, and the cheapest worst tasting grains I can find. I get my beloved Simpson's golden promise, fresh yeast, ro water adjusted to style and the freshest best hops in the world. I game for that.

 

[passedpawn]

Has the forum ever considered adding a advanced/pro brewing sub forum. we have a beginners but it would be nice to have some were the more advanced member could discuss brewing using more professional methods without getting mocked by the cavemen made beer/ less is more crowd? maybe a better wording is for the people that follow a professional process at home rather than just a hobby? cheers

We've always said the same thing when the idea of a new forum comes up: start a thread with the proposed topic, and if it takes off like a wildfire then you were right (and we then revisit the idea of another forum). If it sinks immediately to the bottom of the sea, then we don't suffer any further branching of the forum structure.

 

[Big Monk]

You quoted me to quick! I threw some props in for the obvious great mind that you are. Geez though, thought you would at least fight me on recipe.

Ok, I need some help here, how about a cloying crystal heavy ipa with stale clearance hops. Man they had some at this lhbs, I literally almost threw up in my mouth at the slightest sniff of them. With your lodo process I think you could really preserve that rotten smell. Maybe just 100 percent crystal 120? Idk? Need a little help here. How about 100 percent black patent, no hops, and really expired yeast. Wait, I could go anywhere here now, right, how about refried beans, crystal 120, and cabbage with a little herring mixed in. I'll use, idk, founders kbs. That's one of my favorite and we will give them to unsuspecting people and ask for judgement. Are you still that certain?!

Ok same recipe you say, stale yeast, barfy hops, Florida tap water, and the cheapest worst tasting grains I can find. I get my beloved Simpson's golden promise, fresh yeast, ro water adjusted to style and the freshest best hops in the world. I game for that.

I thought about leaving this one alone but what the hell...

Again, my humor is lost on the masses and now my tongue has worn a hole THROUGH my cheek.

The reasonable person wouldn’t respond to my post with one that says that I should try to salvage a kibbles and bits and sewer water recipe with ragweed for boil hops.

What I’m saying, really saying so no one misses the mark (tongue totally out of cheek with my serious hat ON) is given a similar recipe, with equivalent ingredients, I think the more process oriented brewer would win out.

Just my opinion.

 

[mongoose33]

I thought about leaving this one alone but what the hell...

Again, my humor is lost on the masses and now my tongue has worn a hole THROUGH my cheek.

The reasonable person wouldn’t respond to my post with one that says that I should try to salvage a kibbles and bits and sewer water recipe with ragweed for boil hops.

What I’m saying, really saying so no one misses the mark (tongue totally out of cheek with my serious hat ON) is given a similar recipe, with equivalent ingredients, I think the more process oriented brewer would win out.

Just my opinion.

Here's why I responded as I did: if this were a private conversation between us, your humor would be obvious. But this is a public forum, and presumably there are others whose knowledge of this material is not yet to the level we possess.

So, imagine the newbie reading this, and you say process doesn't matter. Since they don't know you (yet), what is the takeaway for the newbie?

Had you included a smiley-face after your statement that process doesn't matter, then it could have been easily seen as a joke. But you didn't. Shame on you for not doing that, seven lashes with a CO2-purged gas line, get with the program.

And maybe I overreacted. But then, I like the idea of HBT being a good source of info, so I reacted as I did.

 

[Alex4mula]

The brew science forum is what you seek.

Most of those threads stay on topic.

That would be my guess. I don’t even go there thinking I will not understand a lot yet.

 

[mongoose33]

That would be my guess. I don’t even go there thinking I will not understand a lot yet.

Maybe...you're approaching this from the wrong direction? Perhaps reading threads there will improve your understanding?

Reminds me of one way I improved as a golfer. I began to seek out better golfers to golf with. They'd be making different choices than I while playing a hole, and I began to wonder why. Sometimes I'd ask. I realized they knew more about how to play (not how to swing) than I did, and as I learned these things, my scores dropped.

Same with more advanced brewers. If they're doing things differently than you, why? Some things you may not be able to do, some you may be able to approximate, some you might be able to adopt as they seem reasonable to you.

The worst that can happen is you seed your knowledge base with ideas you don't fully understand, but for which you'll be more naturally open to learning about. And will.

 

[Alex4mula]

Maybe...you're approaching this from the wrong direction? Perhaps reading threads there will improve your understanding?
....

Maybe you missed the word “yet”. What can I improve if I have little clue? And definitely there I’ll be afraid to ask dumb basic questions. What I’m saying is that with only 13 brews I still need to learn a lot more in other sub forums. Also what I’m saying is not that I disagree with it. Just that I thought that the brew science sub forum was for those advance topics. Maybe that one can be used instead of adding another one to the long list. Many of them are thin already.

 

[mongoose33]

Maybe you missed the word “yet”. What can I improve if I have little clue? And definitely there I’ll be afraid to ask dumb basic questions. What I’m saying is that with only 13 brews I still need to learn a lot more in other sub forums. Also what I’m saying is not that I disagree with it. Just that I thought that the brew science sub forum was for those advance topics. Maybe that one can be used instead of adding another one to the long list. Many of them are thin already.

I think you missed my point, or I didn't make it well. You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs. You're not going to get past the "yet" if you won't expose yourself to the ideas.

And nobody says you have to participate--just read.

The first time I ever ran across Brewtan-B, I had no idea. So I read. Searched on google. Read some more. Read on the Lodo forum. And learned about chelation and how it protects against the production of staling compounds from copper.

Eggs. Omelet. Make one!

 

[bracconiere]

Doesn't make you a caveman but possibly not a advanced brewer. Do you believe that you could be making better beer if you wanted too? Are you convinced that doing anything more than you currently are would be a complete waste of time and most definitely wouldn't make a better end product? Would you say your beers better than your favorite store bought? Cheers

(3 pages now! reminds me of the thread about homebrewers being cheap, and then noticing a new 'Homebrew deals' forum.....)

And yes i believe there's a lot i could do to make 'better' beer, but i don't give a f**k....i won't be posting in your elite forum....lol, i'm not practicing to break peoples backs with high prices...i just like feeling free, and making my own. because, those who shouldn't be mentioned, seem to hate people making their own....

and once again, i thought 'Brew Science' WAS the advanced brewing forum? which is why i avoid it like the plague.... and back at ya

 

[applescrap]

I thought about leaving this one alone but what the hell...

Again, my humor is lost on the masses and now my tongue has worn a hole THROUGH my cheek.

The reasonable person wouldn’t respond to my post with one that says that I should try to salvage a kibbles and bits and sewer water recipe with ragweed for boil hops.

What I’m saying, really saying so no one misses the mark (tongue totally out of cheek with my serious hat ON) is given a similar recipe, with equivalent ingredients, I think the more process oriented brewer would win out.

Just my opinion.

Oh no, you were being facetious, dammit. I love your humor. The fact I missed that and responded the way I did gives a lot more insight into YOU than me.

I really believe you meant that. I hear that rhetoric all the time from you and others. In fact you said and mind you in all caps that process is OBVIOUSLY everything. So I guess admit it or not, I quickly and clearly outlined that process is OBVIOUSLY not everything. In fact it's very little. Very very little.

I agree with you though, given same recipe and ingredients you would likely brew a better beer. If nothing else I think lodo would give the edge. The answer to your beer being better does not lie in recirculating mash temps.

The reality is many of us aren't using the same recipes and ingredients. I only. And I mean only use world class tried and true recipes. Yet many others here claim to have made a handful of recipes this quality. I only buy the most expensive grain and ingredients I can afford, others strike me as cheap. Yet in both scenarios I hear all the time about process importance, neglecting the real heart of brewing. What you put in the pot by in large is what comes out. How you put it in and stir it, means little and I wont budge there. I know I am right, I dont think. And if you think I am wrong then brew up some rag weed and sewer water and tell me how good it is. Even you have now admitted in all your brewing might you cant fix that. Process is way down the list from recipe and ingredients, OBVIOUSLY!

 

[applescrap]

(3 pages now! reminds me of the thread about homebrewers being cheap, and then noticing a new 'Homebrew deals' forum.....)

And yes i believe there's a lot i could do to make 'better' beer, but i don't give a f**k....i won't be posting in your elite forum....lol, i'm not practicing to break peoples backs with high prices...i just like feeling free, and making my own. because, those who shouldn't be mentioned, seem to hate people making their own....

and once again, i thought 'Brew Science' WAS the advanced brewing forum? which is why i avoid it like the plague.... and back at ya

I can join with this. I am a caveman who puts my grain in hot water like a heathen.

 

[bracconiere]

I can join with this. I am a caveman who puts my grain in hot water like a heathen.

hopefully not TOO hot though! thanks to the invention of the thermometer, we can at least get a good idea of when it's the sweetest.....lol

damn...now you've got me thinking i'm an advanced brewer....strike temp, mash temp, multi-step mashes.... i hope if this 'advanced brewing/brewing science' thing happens i don't get cussed out there too.....you know, i always forget to even see where the recent posts were posted....

 

[Big Monk]

Oh no, you were being facetious, dammit. I love your humor. The fact I missed that and responded the way I did gives a lot more insight into YOU than me.

I really believe you meant that. I hear that rhetoric all the time from you and others. In fact you said and mind you in all caps that process is OBVIOUSLY everything. So I guess admit it or not, I quickly and clearly outlined that process is OBVIOUSLY not everything. In fact it's very little. Very very little.

I agree with you though, given same recipe and ingredients you would likely brew a better beer. If nothing else I think lodo would give the edge. The answer to your beer being better does not lie in recirculating mash temps.

The reality is many of us aren't using the same recipes and ingredients. I only. And I mean only use world class tried and true recipes. Yet many others here claim to have made a handful of recipes this quality. I only buy the most expensive grain and ingredients I can afford, others strike me as cheap. Yet in both scenarios I hear all the time about process importance, neglecting the real heart of brewing. What you put in the pot by in large is what comes out. How you put it in and stir it, means little and I wont budge there. I know I am right, I dont think. And if you think I am wrong then brew up some rag weed and sewer water and tell me how good it is. Even you have now admitted in all your brewing might you cant fix that. Process is way down the list from recipe and ingredients, OBVIOUSLY!

I’m not even referencing Low Oxygen. Leave that out.

I’m saying same recipe and ingredients and dealers choice on process.

Better process makes the better beer in that scenario. IMHO.

 

[6Tap]

[emoji85]

 

[Blazinlow86]

Oh no, you were being facetious, dammit. I love your humor. The fact I missed that and responded the way I did gives a lot more insight into YOU than me.

I really believe you meant that. I hear that rhetoric all the time from you and others. In fact you said and mind you in all caps that process is OBVIOUSLY everything. So I guess admit it or not, I quickly and clearly outlined that process is OBVIOUSLY not everything. In fact it's very little. Very very little.

I agree with you though, given same recipe and ingredients you would likely brew a better beer. If nothing else I think lodo would give the edge. The answer to your beer being better does not lie in recirculating mash temps.

The reality is many of us aren't using the same recipes and ingredients. I only. And I mean only use world class tried and true recipes. Yet many others here claim to have made a handful of recipes this quality. I only buy the most expensive grain and ingredients I can afford, others strike me as cheap. Yet in both scenarios I hear all the time about process importance, neglecting the real heart of brewing. What you put in the pot by in large is what comes out. How you put it in and stir it, means little and I wont budge there. I know I am right, I dont think. And if you think I am wrong then brew up some rag weed and sewer water and tell me how good it is. Even you have now admitted in all your brewing might you cant fix that. Process is way down the list from recipe and ingredients, OBVIOUSLY!

Process isn't exclusive to mash temp. It's you entire process start to finish. cheers