Adding water to lower ABV?

[BrewskiBroski]

I know this may seem like an odd question, but there is a reason behind it.

Can you add water into a couple of bottles of a beer during bottling to lower ABV for a select couple bottles? (Im sure that you can)

So, the real question is.... Is there a way to determine how much you have lowered the ABV in a beer, if I add water to a couple bottles?

Example... I am brewing a beer that was supposed to be less than 4.5% ABV for a brewing competition. Well, before the brew day... i made some adjustments to my cooler/mash tun to try to improve efficiency, and ended up getting 82% efficiency, when i was estimated for 75%.... which means my beer (which is already in the secondary) will be around 5.6% ABV. Now, the beer is awesome, and i dont want to dilute the entire batch, but is there a way to determine how much water to add to get that beer down to around 4.5% ABV?.... or... is there a good way to check ABV as i progressively add more water?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[broadbill]

Adding water to dilute ABV is going to dilute out everything else taste- and smell-wise as well. Do you really want to do that for bottles going to a competition?

Adjusting for efficiency should have happened during brewing, not post-fermentation.

 

[HopSong]

Can you split the batch before bottling and add boiled water to it? Check the SG and adjust as necessary before adding the priming sugar which will change everything slightly?

 

[BrewskiBroski]

I understand that, however, that still doesn't change the fact that I have a beer sitting in the secondary (done fermentation) that is sitting above the ABV it needs to be.

Ordinarily, I'd just brew another beer, but my next couple weeks are very busy and I won't be able to brew another batch between now and the submission date.

Any other advice?

 

[broadbill]

Any other advice?

Submit the beer as is, or sit this competition out.

Do you really think a watered down beer is going to do well in a competition, tasted by people who have studied/trained to know what a certain style of beer is supposed to taste like?

Do you reallythink you'll be able to sneak watered down beer past them?

 

[HopSong]

?? When you move to a bottling bucket, before adding the priming sugar and adjust with boiled water, you WILL change the ABV.. but you will also change the IBU and SRM a bit. You are only changing say a gallon for the contest.. the rest stays the same in the secondary until are ready to bottle? Am I missing something in your intent here?

I've never entered a contest, so don't know how Broadbill's comments apply to mine.

 

[BrewskiBroski]

?? When you move to a bottling bucket, before adding the priming sugar and adjust with boiled water, you WILL change the ABV.. but you will also change the IBU and SRM a bit. You are only changing say a gallon for the contest.. the rest stays the same in the secondary until are ready to bottle? Am I missing something in your intent here?

No - you are spot on.... i think that is probably what i am going to have to do....

I'd like to keep from adding any additional water than necessary, is there a calculation of the amount of water to add to 1 gallon of beer to lower the ABV to the desired 4.5%?

 

[BrewskiBroski]

Submit the beer as is, or sit this competition out.

Do you really think a watered down beer is going to do well in a competition, tasted by people who have studied/trained to know what a certain style of beer is supposed to taste like?

Do you reallythink you'll be able to sneak watered down beer past them?

Dude - i dont know... ya never know... i think the beer is great... so i want to submit it without the risk of being disqualified... so im trying to do that.

Your responses are counter productive and not really helping with my problem here. I appreciate you taking the time to respond, but unless you know have a solution, that is outside of changing the past or not submitting the beer, please don't respond.

 

[BrewKnurd]

1) Anheuser-Busch does this, and I imagine the other macros do to. Of course, they're intentionally brewing the beer with the intent of watering it down, so they make brew a higher gravity, hoppier, etc, beer than they intend to end up with, knowing that they will be diluting it.

2) For something like this, you can do it simple and just do a ratio. When you mix water and alcohol, the volume changes do to volumes of mixing, but you can get close enough by just averaging. If you have 1 gallon at 5.6% alcohol, you have 0.056 gallons of alcohol. So if you want 4.5% ABV, you want that 0.056 gallons to be 4.5% of your total volume.

So 0.056 = 0.45*x -> x = 1.24 gallons. So add a quart and you should be real close. If you decide this is indeed what you're going to do.

 

[HopSong]

Ha, can't help but love a Cajun that knows his math..

 

[BrewKnurd]

Ha, can't help but love a Cajun that knows his math..

I'm not a natural born cajun, i'm a transplant.

 

[HopSong]

Me either.. born in NJ.. moved to BR in 47 and to CA in 58. Went to CHS. Lotta good memories.

 

[broadbill]

Dude - i dont know... ya never know... i think the beer is great...

So you think it will be just as good watered down?

so i want to submit it without the risk of being disqualified... so im trying to do that.

Why would you be disqualified? They don't run lab tests on them, and you aren't required to disclose the ABV (at least not the competitions I've entered). At most I think you'll lose a couple points for the ABV not be closer to style, assuming if they pick up on the higher ABV in the first place. Consider this as opposed to adding water, which I think a judge will pick up on and judge as a bigger flaw in the beer. My point is that you aren't fixing the problem, you are trading one potential flaw (higher ABV) for a definite flaw. This makes little sense to me.

Your responses are counter productive and not really helping with my problem here. I appreciate you taking the time to respond, but unless you know have a solution, that is outside of changing the past or not submitting the beer, please don't respond.

I did have a workable solution, submit the beer as is. You for some reason think adding water is a much better idea. By not adding water, you can at least get feedback from the judges on the actual beer you brewed. By adding water you change pretty much every aspect of the beer, so the judges opinions are going to be skewed accordingly.

 

[BrewskiBroski]

So you think it will be just as good watered down?



Why would you be disqualified? They don't run lab tests on them, and you aren't required to disclose the ABV (at least not the competitions I've entered). At most I think you'll lose a couple points for the ABV not be closer to style, assuming if they pick up on the higher ABV in the first place. Consider this as opposed to adding water, which I think a judge will pick up on and judge as a bigger flaw in the beer. My point is that you aren't fixing the problem, you are trading one potential flaw (higher ABV) for a definite flaw. This makes little sense to me.



I did have a workable solution, submit the beer as is. You for some reason think adding water is a much better idea. By not adding water, you can at least get feedback from the judges on the actual beer you brewed. By adding water you change pretty much every aspect of the beer, so the judges opinions are going to be skewed accordingly.

Excellent point... so it sounds like to me that you have much more experience in competitions that I do... I apologize for dismissing your suggestion to submit as is.

I do have a question though... how do they test ABV at a competition?... the only guidelines for this competition is that the beer must be below 4.5% abv... is it just the honor system?

Ultimately, i don't want to submit as is, if there is risk of being disqualified. I know that i will lose flavor/aroma by adding water, but my hope (maybe a long shot) would be that it still possess enough flavor after the addition of water to compete.... but if there is no real way for them to tell, i agree that submitting as is, is the best bet.

 

[BrewKnurd]

I do have a question though... how do they test ABV at a competition?... the only guidelines for this competition is that the beer must be below 4.5% abv... is it just the honor system?

I was wondering if it was a specific rule for this comp. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong, broadbill), that broadbill was coming from the perspective of trying to meet style guidelines. In a comp like that, i would agree with him, just submit as is. In your case, if the rules state it must be under 4.5, then I wouldn't submit unless it was indeed under 4.5, just an integrity thing for me.

 

[broadbill]

Excellent point... so it sounds like to me that you have much more experience in competitions that I do... I apologize for dismissing your suggestion to submit as is.

I do have a question though... how do they test ABV at a competition?... the only guidelines for this competition is that the beer must be below 4.5% abv... is it just the honor system?

Ultimately, i don't want to submit as is, if there is risk of being disqualified. I know that i will lose flavor/aroma by adding water, but my hope (maybe a long shot) would be that it still possess enough flavor after the addition of water to compete.... but if there is no real way for them to tell, i agree that submitting as is, is the best bet.

Wait, the competition has a limit on the ABV? That's a new one on me...so they aren't judging any styles with ABV's above 4.5% This would exclude something like 60-80% of the styles! Most craftbrews ring up in the 5-7% range.

 

[ajbram]

Excellent point... so it sounds like to me that you have much more experience in competitions that I do... I apologize for dismissing your suggestion to submit as is.

I do have a question though... how do they test ABV at a competition?... the only guidelines for this competition is that the beer must be below 4.5% abv... is it just the honor system?

Ultimately, i don't want to submit as is, if there is risk of being disqualified. I know that i will lose flavor/aroma by adding water, but my hope (maybe a long shot) would be that it still possess enough flavor after the addition of water to compete.... but if there is no real way for them to tell, i agree that submitting as is, is the best bet.

I'm with Broadbill on this one. It really depends on what you want to get out of the contest. If your goal is to win, and your beer is so good that it would win even when it's watered down, then the calculations are simple and I can help you with that if you like.

If your goal is to get feedback on the beer that you have produced, in order to optimize your process, then the feedback you get on the beer that you water down will be next to useless. I'm not trying to be counter productive here, but merely figure out what your objective is by submitting this beer. I have never participated in a contest, but I have friends who do so regularly, and who judge home-brew contests as well. If those people are any indication of other judges and their attitude, the extra ABV probably won't get you disqualified, but you might lose some points. Even if it does get you technically disqualified and you might not be able to win a ribbon, you will still get their feedback on the beer you have produced, and which you will continue to drink at home. I think this is far more valuable.

As far as measuring ABV at a contest, it's usually on the honour system. ABV is stated, or the OG and FG are stated and the judges make the simple calculation.

Hope this helps

 

[BrewskiBroski]

This will be my first competition, and this is the lightest beer i've ever tried to make.


My goal by submitting a beer is to see how it stands against other homebrewed beer out there. Feedback would be great and winning would be excellent, but ultimately it's to see how my beer ranks.

So, in competitions, it sounds like if are outside the parameters, you lose points... not disqualified. If that is the case, I think i will submit as is. I'd rather get honest feedback on the untainted result, then submit a watered down version, either way i'd likely lose points. I definitely appreciate the responses.

 

[C-Rider]

Me either.. born in NJ.. moved to BR in 47 and to CA in 58. Went to CHS. Lotta good memories.

What's CHS? Cajun High School?