Adding souring bacteria to a cider, when to bottle?

pukexxr · Mar 22, 2016

I did the assembly on a batch of ed wort's apfelwein for the umpteenth time and decided to pitch the dregs from a bottle of magical brettanomyces tour #4 afro brett about a week into the fermentation. I typically bottle this at 5-8 weeks with no problems, but am not sure if I am risking bottle bombs if I bottle this early with a souring culture. Should I let it ride longer? At what gravity is it safe to bottle with live cultures? Do souring cultures even produce enough byproducts that this is even a concern?

***sorry if this has been asked a zillion times, but I can't find it searching the forum using the app (my only means of accessing the site presently)

Agate · Mar 22, 2016

What yeast did you use for primary fermentation? My ciders finish at 100% apparent attenuation or higher just from sacch yeast, so there shouldn't be any residual sugar left in a dry cider for the brett to ferment. I've done all-brett and sacch + brett ciders, and they all finish in about the same time frame. Sacch will pretty much eat everything in cider, so once it has cleared you should be able to bottle without risk of additional attenuation.

For reference, I would be looking for a terminal gravity in the ballpark of 0.997-1.001.

Also, brett is a yeast, not a bacteria. The only sourness it will create is acetic acid, when oxygen is present after the lag phase. I'm not sure what's in your dregs, but if it's a brett beer it won't sour. You'll need lactic acid bacteria for that (lactobacillus or pediococcus).

pukexxr · Mar 22, 2016

I fermented with Montrachet. My hope was that the brett would eat dead yeast cells and produce some barnyard funk, but perhaps that is a misunderstanding on my part about how brett works.

So from the sound of things I can bottle as per usual and allow them to continue to age in bottles, maybe there will be some funk but probably not?

Agate · Mar 22, 2016

Montrachet should dry it out to where there won't be much risk of hyper-attenuation from the brett. But still, practice due care to make sure gravity is stable over a few weeks, as every gravity point drop is roughly a half volume extra carbonation.

Brett also doesn't need sugar to create funk. I added some to a year-old cider and within a month it was completely changed, without even a hint of attenuation. Just give it a carbon source and it'll do its thing.

pukexxr · Mar 22, 2016

Awesome. Thanks so much for the input. I will report back about how it turned out.

pukexxr · Apr 12, 2016

Agate said:
Montrachet should dry it out to where there won't be much risk of hyper-attenuation from the brett. But still, practice due care to make sure gravity is stable over a few weeks, as every gravity point drop is roughly a half volume extra carbonation.

Brett also doesn't need sugar to create funk. I added some to a year-old cider and within a month it was completely changed, without even a hint of attenuation. Just give it a carbon source and it'll do its thing.

Just wanted to check back in regarding this [now bottled and carbed] apfelwein. It turned out great, thanks for putting my mind at ease regarding the brett. I don't think it's really had full time to populate the bottles, but I swear this version is markedly more sour than previous versions and has a slight funk (admittedly this could be related to my complete lack of regard for ferm temp control, but doesn't explain the sourness).

I'm gonna let a 6 pack age out for a year or so and see how that turns out. Thanks again.