Adding Malt Extracts at end of Hop Boil

[BeerAddikt]

On my last batch (Apricot Blonde), I tried the technique of adding roughly half of the recipe's malt extract pre hop boil to reduce scorching and darkening of wort and to increase hop utilization. I added the remaining LME with 7 minutes remaining in the 60 minute hop boil and ran into an issue.

Adding the LME caused the wort to stop boiling, which got me worried that this would impact the utilization of the hops. To compensate I ended up waiting till the wort got back to boiling (about 6 minutes) and boiled for an additional 5 minutes.

I've read that you can add some of the malt extract at flame out and was wondering what everyone's opinions are on this technique? It seems like the best solution, but are there any drawbacks to adding the remaining LME at flame out?

As always I greatly appreciate any advice!

 

[Kent88]

Haven't tried it myself. I wouldn't want to do that with Pilsner extract because I'd be concerned that the DMS wasn't boiling off. But with the high quality of malts and extracts you can get now there are brewers who question if this is legitimately still a concern. I think there are other compounds in malt/extract that you want to give a chance to boil off.

I have heard of recipe kits that call for adding extract with around 20 minutes left in the boil. I would be a lot more comfortable with that.

Then again, how long are the Mr. B extracts supposed to be boiled for? And those can turn out surprisingly well. Not that I plan to make any of those ever again.

 

[BeerAddikt]

I think there are other compounds in malt/extract that you want to give a chance to boil off.

I have heard of recipe kits that call for adding extract with around 20 minutes left in the boil. I would be a lot more comfortable with that.

In Palmer's "How to Brew" he mentions that he has had great success with this technique (paraphrasing). Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't most of the "other compounds" be boiled off in the creation of the extract?

You've definitely got me thinking, and researching...here we go again...

 

[shortyz]

the DMS was boiled off far before you got your extract... any of my extract brews i add all the LME at the end of the boil.

 

[RM-MN]

Approximately 90% of the bittering comes in the first 30 minutes so missing out 7 minutes of a 60 minute boil will have a negligible effect. I've been doing a number of brews with only a 30 minute boil from all grain and have no perceptible DMS and can't taste any lack of bittering either. I don't think you need to worry much about killing the boil when adding the last extract.

 

[kh54s10]

I also think that stopping the boil is not much of an issue. And that, when making the extract the DMS is boiled off so late addition is not a problem. The last one I did, I added the last half of the extract right after turning off the flame. Stirring well to make sure it all mixed in. The wort is still hot enough to pasteurize the extract.

 

[Yooper]

I'd definitely add the bulk of the extract at flame out. It's more than hot enough to pasteurize the extract, and won't kill the boil when you want the wort to boil (like adding hops at 15 or 5 minutes before the end of the boil).

 

[BeerAddikt]

Awesome feedback. Thanks to all!!! Cheers.

 

[Jim311]

DMS is not an issue in extract brewing. For this reason you can brew the entire batch with the lid on to lower fuel consumption and reduce boil off. It's just one of the perks of extract brewing. The second is the ability to "top up" your batch at the end of the brew with ice cold bottled water to reduce chilling time.

 

[ncbrewer]

I add about 2/3 of the extract at flameout. With my partial boil, this leaves the wort at about 190F. That's well above pasteurization temperature, and I like it for a hop stand, although opinions vary a lot on hop stand temp. Even when not doing a hop stand, I let it sit, covered, for another 10 minutes to pasteurize. That's way longer than needed, but it makes me feel better.

As far as hop utilization, there is difference of opinion as to whether it is actually affected by boil gravity, even among experts. You'll just have to try it and adjust if needed to get the bitterness you want.

 

[Jim311]

A weird thought just crossed my mind. If you can supposedly add most or all of the extract at the end of the boil, would it theoretically be possible to brew an extract batch using a very small amount of water, but still boiling for the required 60 minutes, and then adding all of the extract at the very end and topping it up with cold (obviously clean/bottled/chilled) water?

 

[BeerAddikt]

DMS is not an issue in extract brewing. For this reason you can brew the entire batch with the lid on to lower fuel consumption and reduce boil off. It's just one of the perks of extract brewing. The second is the ability to "top up" your batch at the end of the brew with ice cold bottled water to reduce chilling time.

And all this time I've been worried about the lid causing condensation that drips back into the boil, causing off flavors. With the lid on I'll get a more vigorous boil which in theory can increase my hop utilization. :rockin:

 

[BeerAddikt]

A weird thought just crossed my mind. If you can supposedly add most or all of the extract at the end of the boil, would it theoretically be possible to brew an extract batch using a very small amount of water, but still boiling for the required 60 minutes, and then adding all of the extract at the very end and topping it up with cold (obviously clean/bottled/chilled) water?

I've actually wondered this myself. Why not just start the hop boil with water by itself and then add extract near the end of the boil?

 

[Yooper]

A weird thought just crossed my mind. If you can supposedly add most or all of the extract at the end of the boil, would it theoretically be possible to brew an extract batch using a very small amount of water, but still boiling for the required 60 minutes, and then adding all of the extract at the very end and topping it up with cold (obviously clean/bottled/chilled) water?

No, not really. There are a couple of reasons. First, the reason the extract is added so late in the boil is to avoid excess maillard reactions- those reactions that include browning in color and tasting "cooked" (like when you make toast from bread). For a full boil, you can add all the extract right up front. But for a partial boil, the reason to add the bulk of the extract late is to avoid those reactions (since the more extract boiled, the greater the SG of the wort, the more maillard reactions occur).

Next, you can only get so much hops isomerization before the wort is saturated with alpha acids and it can't create more IBUs. Generally, that is around 80-100 IBUs at a max. So, say you're boiling 1 gallon and topping off with 4 gallons. That means, if you have an 80 IBU 1 gallon wort, and add 4 gallons of 0 IBU water, you will have, at most, 16 IBUs if my quick math is right. That might be ok for some beers, but for most it would be an issue- you'd have a wort that would be caramelized from the boil, but with very little hops isomerization.

Dilution is actually the biggest issue for hoppy/bitter beers, like an IPA, when a partial boil is done.

Also, it's said that boiling hops in just water makes a super harsh hops character. Using about 1 pound of extract per gallon of water in the boil seems to work about the best for avoiding excess maillard reactions, but still in general most brewers would advise to boil as much as you can- that is as much as you can boil and reasonably cool. It does make a better beer in the end.

 

[BeerAddikt]

Also, it's said that boiling hops in just water makes a super harsh hops character. Using about 1 pound of extract per gallon of water in the boil seems to work about the best for avoiding excess maillard reactions, but still in general most brewers would advise to boil as much as you can- that is as much as you can boil and reasonably cool. It does make a better beer in the end.

Yooper...you are the man! I can always count on you for a clear concise answer!

 

[Yooper]

Yooper...you are the man! I can always count on you for a clear concise answer!

Thank you for the compliment! I'm pretty sure that is the first time I've ever been called 'the man' before.

 

[BeerAddikt]

Thank you for the compliment! I'm pretty sure that is the first time I've ever been called 'the man' before.

Errrr...woman. Lol. I was actually considering saying "the man...or woman" as I typed that message but my stereotypical thinking got the best of me.

 

[Jim311]

Good reply Yooper. For some reason I still think it would be fun to totally ruin a small batch to try it anyway

 

[shortyz]

on another note with extract, for the love of christ DO NOT put the extract in when the pot is on the burner. itll sink and burn within seconds.

cheers

 

[ncbrewer]

on another note with extract, for the love of christ DO NOT put the extract in when the pot is on the burner. itll sink and burn within seconds.

cheers

+1
I even take it off the burner and leave it for one minute to make sure the bottom has cooled a little.