Adding juice back in?

[cidertown]

So, I remember reading a while ago that some hard cider manufacturers brew very strong cider, then add juice back to it to bring the alcohol percentage back down. Does anyone have info on this?

We were drinking a store bought cider the other day and wow did it have a lot of apple flavor! I've also seen concentrated apple tinctures that can add the apple flavor back, which might be what that company as done.

 

[JimRausch]

I believe that some of the commercial hard ciders add an artificial apple flavor, which I definitely find objectionable(Angry Orchard, I'm looking at you).
However, if you ferment a hard cider to completion, then stabilize it to prevent further fermentation, you can certainly add fresh cider to taste to get back some sweetness and apple flavor. It would decrease ABV as well. Some people add frozen apple juice concentrate at packaging time, which would add flavor without diluting the ABV much.

 

[cidertown]

Thanks for your response!
Angry Orchard IS very apple flavored...isn't it!
I agree - the less 'stuff' added the happier I am. I don't like the idea of adding splenda or some other artificial sweeter in either, which I've read many people do.
I wondered about adding a fresh juice with preservatives to fully fermented cider, but I suppose that would stop the carbonation process too, wouldn't it...

 

[paperairplane]

I ferment dry and then hit it with ksorb and kmeta. Then I backsweeten with AJ concentrate.

 

[JimRausch]

I wondered about adding a fresh juice with preservatives to fully fermented cider, but I suppose that would stop the carbonation process too, wouldn't it...

Well that is the potential problem, although sorbate as a preservative doesn't kill yeast but prevents it from reproducing. So, if there is enough yeast in suspension, it could still ferment.
So, for a sweetish still cider you could stabilize as paperairplane does, then add the juice to taste. Or cold crash and rack it a couple times as Dave Taylor does to decrease the # of yeast, then add the juice. Or even pasteurize it after adding the juice to kill the yeast.
For a sweetish bubbly cider, then you'll need to add the juice and let it bottle carbonate until it reaches your desired bubbliness, then pasteurize it. More complicated, but can be done- read the extensive sticky at the top of the cider forum.

 

[citytransplant]

I ferment dry and then hit it with ksorb and kmeta. Then I backsweeten with AJ concentrate.

And from there do you bottle? If yes, have you had any gushers, even with the ksorb and kmeta and if so, how long was the juice in the bottle before you opened the gusher(s)?

With respect to the original post, the idea of adding a truckload of sugar on the front end to bring the OG up, let it ferment fully so as to brew a very strong cider and then add juice back in on the back end appeals to me. To determine ABV in this case, would one use the specific gravity reading after adding the juice on the backend?

 

[paperairplane]

And from there do you bottle? If yes, have you had any gushers, even with the ksorb and kmeta and if so, how long was the juice in the bottle before you opened the gusher(s)?

With respect to the original post, the idea of adding a truckload of sugar on the front end to bring the OG up, let it ferment fully so as to brew a very strong cider and then add juice back in on the back end appeals to me. To determine ABV in this case, would one use the specific gravity reading after adding the juice on the backend?

I keg, so no experience bottling with ksorb and kmeta - but I would not expect much carbonation at all using chems, especially if you also cold crash.
I have done a 1 gallon batch that I backsweetened, bottled and let sit on the counter for a few days and then refrigerated. Came out perfect, but I call this the danger method. But if you time it right and keep it cold and drink it fast, it can work. YMMV, I'm not responsible for any bottle bombs.
I am currently experimenting with a cider I added 10# of sugar to and used S05. I am curious to see how far down 05 can take it, my assumption is that the 05 should quit before all sugar is consumed. We'll see in another month or so.

 

[paperairplane]

To determine ABV in this case, would one use the specific gravity reading after adding the juice on the backend?

I would take a reading of the finished cider before adding juice, then figure out how much you diluted it with juice.

 

[citytransplant]

I am currently experimenting with a cider I added 10# of sugar to and used S05. I am curious to see how far down 05 can take it, my assumption is that the 05 should quit before all sugar is consumed. We'll see in another month or so.

Interesting approach. Assuming 10# is 10 pounds, how much juice did you start with and what was the specific gravity after adding 10 lbs. of sugar but before pitching?

I would take a reading of the finished cider before adding juice, then figure out how much you diluted it with juice.

I'm not sure what you mean by figuring out how much I diluted it with juice. To refresh, (and to keep on topic and not hijack this thread) the original poster, cidertown, spoke of a hard cider manufacturer that brews very strong cider, then adds juice back to it to bring the alcohol percentage back down and cidertown asks if anyone had any info on this. My question is related: how does one figure the ABV after significant dilution? Especially if one begins with a "strong" (high ABV, example 12%) brew and required a significant volume of juice to dilute to something akin to commercial cider (e.g., 5% ABV). Thanks.

 

[paperairplane]

My question is related: how does one figure the ABV after significant dilution? Especially if one begins with a "strong" (high ABV, example 12%) brew and required a significant volume of juice to dilute to something akin to commercial cider (e.g., 5% ABV). Thanks.

If you have 1 gallon of 12% cider and add 1 gallon of juice, you have 2 gallons of 6% cider. Right?

 

[citytransplant]

If you have 1 gallon of 12% cider and add 1 gallon of juice, you have 2 gallons of 6% cider. Right?

Sounds reasonable to me. Thoughts from others are welcome.