Adding Hops

[theirondude]

I am experimenting with a Red Ale recipe. The original recipe calls for 1.5 oz chinook at 60 min and 2 oz cascade at 2 min. I brew in an AIOB with an IC and I can chill the wort to 110 deg within 8-10 minutes. I prefer a malty... ish flavor and this recipe is a pinch too bitter, imo. The finish is lacking in hops flavor and what flavor I do get is pretty one dimensional with very little aroma. I carb with DME and bottle age 2-3 weeks. I would like to change the hops addition to the following... 1 oz chinook @ 45min, 2 oz cascade at 20 min, and 1 oz mosaic at 15 min with a dry hop addition of 1 oz mosaic at SG 1.020... I am trying to achieve a multi dimensional hops finish while maintaining a malty brew. What do you think??? Your wisdom is much appreciated.

 

[PCABrewing]

You will pickup a fair amount of bitter with a 20 and a 15 minute addition and with 15 minutes of boil you won't get much aroma of the Mosaic.
I'd be inclined to stick to 1 oz Chinook for 60, 2 oz Cascade at 2 min and save the Mosaic for whirlpool (170 degrees) for 10 after flameout, or similar.
I haven't plugged this into Beersmith so I'm just going from gutt feel based on your stated preference.
Can you pull the 2 minute addition after 2-min?

 

[theirondude]

You will pickup a fair amount of bitter with a 20 and a 15 minute addition and with 15 minutes of boil you won't get much aroma of the Mosaic.
I'd be inclined to stick to 1 oz Chinook for 60, 2 oz Cascade at 2 min and save the Mosaic for whirlpool (170 degrees) for 10 after flameout, or similar.
I haven't plugged this into Beersmith so I'm just going from gutt feel based on your stated preference.
Can you pull the 2 minute addition after 2-min?

I can pull the cascade after 2 min. It is my understanding that because I bottle age the aroma will quickly dissipate even with a late addition, is this correct? I could be more descriptive with the desired outcome... I would like a malty/bitter forward flowing into a hoppy flavor transitioning into a mildly citrusy/floral finish with a malty flavor... am I asking too much???

 

[flipster]

Have you thought about using hops in the first wort (not sure, if this is the correct translation for "Vorderwürze") instead of adding while boiling - you might also get more falvours for the nose from that. The cinnook and the cascade seem a good source of plenty of flavours.
So I'd think about something like 2/3 chinook + 1/3 cascade in the first wort, and the rest in the whirlpool - and aiming for a 1:2.5 ratio °P/IBU on that (you just have to do the math on that).
For the maltiness... have you thought about decoction (using it a lot at the moment, because it's fun)? Or maybe a careful (slightly higher) pinch of melanoidin malt (would also bang even more with decoction)?

 

[elf_brewery]

I, too, am looking for less bitterness and more aroma. I don't have sophisticated equipment and make extract brews. Is there a minimum IBU for the bitterness in the boil and the flavor/aroma hops take the total IBU up to standard later in the boil?

If I go the "first wort" method, is this in the steep pre-boil?

Cheers!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I, too, am looking for less bitterness and more aroma.

Look into "whirlpool" hop additions. The hops are added at around 170 - 180F after the boil, then the wort temperature is held for around 20 to 40 minutes. (No need to stir the hops to create a whirlpool).

First wort hopping: those who get 'good results' with FWH, report a smoother bitterness rather than more aroma. With extract, one cold create the conditions of a first wort hop by adding the extract at about 160F before the start of the boil, adding the hops, then slowly heating the wort to a boil (over say 30 minutes or so).

 

[rodwha]

For my IPAs I often reduce my bittering charge to about 15-20 IBUs and use this as a first wort hop addition as it’s just enough IBUs to deal with the sweetness. I use hops at 15 and 5 mins, as well as a whirlpool and dry hop.