Adding honey to primary

[DaleGC]

Hi everyone, I've got a batch brewing at the minute and I'm looking to boost the gravity with some extra honey. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can do this without upsetting the yeast.

I was hoping to do this slowly but I'm unsure if I can pour this straight into the DJ or if I should mix it with water and give it a good stir. Both seem to have possible advantages, the pouring method would hopefully not mix up the batch too much and upset the yeast and the stirring would give a better average of the gravity.

Which one is right?

 

[fatbloke]

Its up to you. If the honey is liquid enough you can just pour in and the use a lees stirrer gently until its mixed in so you can take a gravity reading.

If its a glass fermenter you can usually see if it settles which would then require more stirring, if its in a plastic fermenter where you can't see whats going on, you'd have to do a bit more research about how much of a gravity increase you can expect, then measure before, add and stir, then measure again and you should then see the appropriate rise in gravity. If the numbers work out fine if they're on the low side it probably needs further stirring.

Repeat as required......

 

[ACbrewer]

your best bet would be to syphon out some mead and mix that with the honey and return the whole mix back to the fermentor and then gently stir and at that point you coudl get a new gravity. If you aren't concerned about the gravity, and just want to add honey (or figure to use a calculated gravity) you can put the honey it and the yeast will consume it where it falls. How big is your batch, how much honey are you adding.

 

[DaleGC]

Thank you both for the quick responses, my recipe is:

For 1 gallon

3.5lb wild forest honey
6oz ginger
Zest of 1 orange
25 raisins
Tronozymol
Lalvin k1v1116

The initial gravity was 1.100 and after looking through some notes, I'd have preferred an SG of 1.140 to get the sweetness and alcohol strength I'm after.

It's only filled to 4.5 litres so far as it only started at the weekend but I was looking to step feed this early if possible.

 

[ACbrewer]

3.5lb? and an OG of 1.100? that seems low. I get it as 28-29 ppgp (points per gallon pound) - usually honey has 35ppgp it should have been 1.122. Anyhow if you use the same honey as before, then 1.4lb (assuming 28 ppgp - was it 'thinner' than usual?) More typically you should add about 1.15lb of honey - call it 1.2 lb. - about 19 oz. weight. Although you say '1 gallon' and the 4.5 L... but a gallon is 3.7l so really 1.2 gallons is what you have. Which gives with the 1.122 OG I back figured.

Ok, go with about 1.4 lb of honey that you had before, assuming your volume of liquid is closer to 4.5L. (sorry for the rambling).

How long has it been fermenting?
If you do the mixing I suggest, (with the current mead) then remember to sanatize

 

[DaleGC]

Hi ACBrewer. That's exactly the info I needed, thanks .

The honey wasn't particularly thin that I noticed but I'm not exactly 'the trained eye' ha ha.

I only started on Friday so I think I'll give it a quick gravity check and add the honey and stir it with the sterilised stirrer.

I wonder if the change in readings is down to US/UK conversions. In the uk, a gallon is nearly 5 litres. :S

 

[ACbrewer]

Well THAT would explain it. I hope a pound is still a pound. About 2.2 lb per kg. In this case use my liter values of the math so about 1.4lb to add. Im in my phone so getting out more thought on this is difficult .

 

[ACbrewer]

Ok, back on my computer, easier to type. So since you have 4.5 L use the figuring for that. my comments about ppgp were for US gallons, not imperial ones. Additionally while 28 ppgp honey would be more like maple syrup than honey, that only works if we are talking US gallons. I think you are fine.

One other thing to do when putting in the honey, get the gravity. This will be important. if your gravity (without the new honey) is about 1.030 or higher then don't worry about mixing with the mead. Mead (and wines) can do with a bit of degasing of the CO2. The CO2 creates an increased preasure in the mead, making it harder for the yeast to absorb sugar and increasing yeast stress. Yeast stress= off flavors, so a mild degassing if you are above 50% sugar is ok.

 

[fatbloke]

-----snip-----
Although you say '1 gallon' and the 4.5 L... but a gallon is 3.7l
-----/snip-----

No its not. A gallon, sometimes referred to as an imperial/imp gallon is indeed 4.5 (actually 4.55) litres near as damn it.

WE "invented" them, it was your lot who got the numbers wrong and got into the habit of "short changing" each other ending up with the 3.78 litre US gallon (notice I also spell litres correctly too).

It'd likely be easier to use metric, base ten making the maths easier too but hey ho, us non-Americans are a forgiving lot by and large......

 

[Inner10]

No its not. A gallon, sometimes referred to as an imperial/imp gallon is indeed 4.5 (actually 4.55) litres near as damn it.

WE "invented" them, it was your lot who got the numbers wrong and got into the habit of "short changing" each other ending up with the 3.78 litre US gallon (notice I also spell litres correctly too).

It'd likely be easier to use metric, base ten making the maths easier too but hey ho, us non-Americans are a forgiving lot by and large......

The US invented their own gallon so they could screw everyone with smaller cans of paint.

 

[fatbloke]

ACb's info is excellent. Yet I'd also suggest that you just remember that while the maths will give seemingly accurate numbers, I seem to recall reading that the USDA says something about honey must be 18% water or less (someone may have to correct that) which I believe is what is used for the "calculators" at places like gotmead and others.

I find it considerably more useful to use the numbers like that as a guide. Using a bit less honey than suggested and measuring gravity. After all only you can do a calibration check on your hydrometer......

Plus if youve started the batch lower, it's often less problematic to let the ferment run to about half way through and then step feed the honey. I sort of aim for about 20 point gravity increases per step then let the ferment run back down before adding a further step.

That way I can hit the yeast tolerance reasonably easily. You may just have to meddle with the nutrient levels earlier on and/or have the boiled bread yeast (or other source of organic nitrogen if you have them) ready if it gets a bit temperamental in the later stages of the ferment.

The "all the fermentables in the brew upfront" method is a bit like beer making, and can cause a few issues with meads.......meads use considerably more sugars than beers, hence why you see probems with the all upfront method as the osmotic pressures on the yeast can make the ferment struggle or produce off flavours or other issues......

 

[DaleGC]

Wow, thanks again to you both. I think I will stick with the amount recommended by ACBrewer (when I've done the sums the PPG for a UK gallon seem about right and rationing that against my original honey input sounds about right) but feed it in 2 halves afters a couple of weeks when the gravity has dropped like FatBloke advises and use the hydrometer to confirm the results.

You have both saved me a massive headache do thanks again.

 

[ACbrewer]

Wow, thanks again to you both. I think I will stick with the amount recommended by ACBrewer (when I've done the sums the PPG for a UK gallon seem about right and rationing that against my original honey input sounds about right) but feed it in 2 halves afters a couple of weeks when the gravity has dropped like FatBloke advises and use the hydrometer to confirm the results.

You have both saved me a massive headache do thanks again.

I was going to suggest that you do a .7lb and .7lb feed based on what FatBloke said about step feeding, and osmotic preasure. I'm happy to do math, but will conceed I'm using numbers provided by others, and that 1, if they are wrong, they are wrong and 2, even if they are right for that batch of honey, they are probably +/- a bit. Maybe we need pplk (points per liter kilogram) or something like that, since there is only one value for liter and kg.

 

[ACbrewer]

No its not. A gallon, sometimes referred to as an imperial/imp gallon is indeed 4.5 (actually 4.55) litres near as damn it.

WE "invented" them, it was your lot who got the numbers wrong and got into the habit of "short changing" each other ending up with the 3.78 litre US gallon (notice I also spell litres correctly too).

It'd likely be easier to use metric, base ten making the maths easier too but hey ho, us non-Americans are a forgiving lot by and large......

I really don't care who invented what... The published values are for ppgp where g is US gallons. >shrugg<. And When I see the word gallon I think 3.7L not 4.5L as I'm sure you all think the reverse.

Of course screwing with units both US and Metric is another great US invention getting us blind space teloscopes (Hubble) and Mars Mission that fail to deploy (Mars Climate Orbiter). sigh. As a science geek, NASA's failure at basic math while understandable is somewhat fustrating.

 

[fatbloke]

I really don't care who invented what... The published values are for ppgp where g is US gallons. >shrugg<. And When I see the word gallon I think 3.7L not 4.5L as I'm sure you all think the reverse.

Of course screwing with units both US and Metric is another great US invention getting us blind space teloscopes (Hubble) and Mars Mission that fail to deploy (Mars Climate Orbiter). sigh. As a science geek, NASA's failure at basic math while understandable is somewhat fustrating.

Top man..... nothing like a good response to a gentle piss take...

Just re-read your post to get my head round your comment. Strangely I'd never thought of working it out as accurately as that. I'm far too casual or hit and miss with my technique. I usually work out roughly how much honey I'm intending to use, then mix it up to the target start volume and check gravity. Honey here doesn't regularly have % water or sugars data so I just use hydrometer readings and add a bit more honey if low or dilute the must if its too high.

I've seen others who like to work the number to the enth degree and applaud their efforts but don't bother with that. I'm far too lazy and impatient for all that, but as "they" say, you learn something new every day. So you keep posting so I can keep reading

 

[Inner10]

I really don't care who invented what... The published values are for ppgp where g is US gallons. >shrugg<. And When I see the word gallon I think 3.7L not 4.5L as I'm sure you all think the reverse.

Of course screwing with units both US and Metric is another great US invention getting us blind space teloscopes (Hubble) and Mars Mission that fail to deploy (Mars Climate Orbiter). sigh. As a science geek, NASA's failure at basic math while understandable is somewhat fustrating.

Closer to 3.8...

 

[ACbrewer]

Top man..... nothing like a good response to a gentle piss take...

Just re-read your post to get my head round your comment. Strangely I'd never thought of working it out as accurately as that. I'm far too casual or hit and miss with my technique. I usually work out roughly how much honey I'm intending to use, then mix it up to the target start volume and check gravity. Honey here doesn't regularly have % water or sugars data so I just use hydrometer readings and add a bit more honey if low or dilute the must if its too high.

I've seen others who like to work the number to the enth degree and applaud their efforts but don't bother with that. I'm far too lazy and impatient for all that, but as "they" say, you learn something new every day. So you keep posting so I can keep reading

LOL. Well there was no need to take offense, and heck I saw humor in it. As for math, I like working it out, but rarely end up taking advantage of it. I more of the sort who will figure 'I need 1.4lb' of honey and then toss in somewhere between 1 and 2 lb and not worry about anything.

I enjoy doing the math so I can know what I should be aiming for, but then in the end don't care for myself. I often do it for people here. One thing I've found is using the grams of sugar per serving and servings per container to get total grams of sugar in honey, juice, etc, and then working the numbers from there for an idea of what to have on hand.

And I'm aware that sugar/water values of honey could very as it is also a very natural product, and them bee's don't work to a standard! And I suspect I've learned a lot from your experience making mead much more than you will from my numbers.

 

[XkiddRick]

I would put it in the boiling wort the last 15 minutes of boil.
Not only to sanitze it but to liquify it to mix it in better to the other ingredents.

 

[ACbrewer]

I would put it in the boiling wort the last 15 minutes of boil.
Not only to sanitze it but to liquify it to mix it in better to the other ingredents.

while it is helpful to heat honey to soften it, putting it in boiling liquid is actually not usually a good idea. It will force of the low temperature volatiles that create the flavors. And honey doesn't need to be sanatized. Some studies have show better flavors when not boiled

 

[DaleGC]

Update to all of you:


7oz of honey fave me a SG increase of .022. It looks like the theory and the practical are pretty much identical with this one.

Thanks again I'll keep the updates coming.