Add all LME at 15 minutes (late addition)

[sjlammer]

Just helped a friend brew for the first time and we did an Extract Batch that had 1 pound of Crystal Malt, and 7 Pounds of LME.

We steeped the Crystal Malt, and then Sparged the grains and topped up the BK to the full 7 gallons. Thinking we were going to do a late LME addition, we did not add any LME until 15 minutes.

What is the effect on the bittering hop addition having barely any sugar in the wort? Are there negatives, or will we just get better bittering hop utilization?

 

[JBmadtown]

This seems to be a very hotly contested subject lately so just be ready.

There is debate about hop utilization and wort gravity. It seems that hops utilization is increased with late extract addition. The degree of change is the question. Is it based on the gravity or the amount of break material. In the end, it is probably different than if you would have added the LME at the beginning. By how much? I am not sure if anyone knows!

Tell your buddy to keep a good brew log and develop his beer according to his taste.

 

[dotnetdotcom]

Then let the debate begin...
According to this post by SumnerH, "Hop utilization is independent of wort gravity, and the impact (if any) of late extract addition on IBUs is much, much smaller than what software will calculate." The sources that he cites say that late additions mostly affect color.

That said, it so happens that I just now finished my first LME brew using a late addition. I used United Canadian Pale LME, which is diastatic. I began adding the late addition right after my 15 minute hop addition. I guess because this extract is diastatic, a frothy mess of a hot break was created that extended my boil time a few minutes. I have 2 questions about it: Is the hot break complete when the foaming subsides? Do I have to worry about DMS not being boiled off?

 

[Yooper]

In my own experience, worts done with late addition of the extract were more bitter than those without. In one case, the software showed a difference of 15 up to 27 IBUs, and it seemed to taste that way, too. In other cases, starting with a higher IBU pale ale, it didn't seem to taste much differently. I don't think a person can taste the difference of 5-7 IBUs.

The most recent thinking is that it's break material, not wort gravity, that impacts the IBUs in a boil. If you boiled only water, you didn't have much in the way of break material. If it's break material or not that impacts hops utilization, I can't say. I would suspect that your beer will have a bit more bittering than had you added the extract at the beginning, but I don't have any idea how much of a difference. I would say it's not that much in all likelihood. That's just a guess, based on my own experience and the newest data that I'm hearing about.

You don't have to worry about DMS with extract- it's already been processed. It's not like grain that has been mashed and then has to boil for an hour to evaporate some of the DMS precursors. I've added extract at flame out before (my preference, since you don't stop the boil with 15 minutes left).