A Year of CO2 Leaks, Please Help

[jack13]

Was the beer carbed at all first?
It's difficult to do pressure tests on kegs with fluids that absorb CO2 - and your beer gas is 25% CO2.
If you really need to test a keg it's best done bone dry so as not to futz with gauge observations...

Cheers!

It is carbed a little bit. Given that, a bit of a drop in pressure if I turn off at the tank is normal, then (not necessarily indicative of a leak)?

 

[day_trippr]

CO2 absorption will certainly continue until the beer has reached the temperature/CO2 pressure equilibrium point, which can be predicted and controlled using our favorite carbonation table.

If you simply apply "chart pressure" for your beer's temperature and aim for a typical ale carbonation level (the middle of the range is roughly 2.4-2.5 volumes) it will take close to a couple of weeks for a full 5 gallon corny keg to reach equilibrium.

That would be for straight CO2, of course, but if you're carbing your keg on beer gas it still takes time to infuse the entire volume with the CO2 component...

Cheers!

 

[HopSing]

There was a very slight leak at the gas post which only occurred when the QD was connected. I replaced the oring on the poppit and on the post and that appears to have fixed it.

Glad you rooted out a few of the leaks in your system. As a side note, I have two CO2 tanks, a 10# that fits in my fridge and a 20# I use to refill the 10# tank. I came across a second regulator so as a best practice, I hook up my recently kicked kegs to the 20# tank, pressurize the lines, then turn off the Co2 tank valve and keep an eye on the gauges. If I see a drop in pressure, I rebuild the keg including the poppet, dip tube, and lid o-rings.

~HopSing.

 

[balrog]

Glad you rooted out a few of the leaks in your system. As a side note, I have two CO2 tanks, a 10# that fits in my fridge and a 20# I use to refill the 10# tank. I came across a second regulator so as a best practice, I hook up my recently kicked kegs to the 20# tank, pressurize the lines, then turn off the Co2 tank valve and keep an eye on the gauges. If I see a drop in pressure, I rebuild the keg including the poppet, dip tube, and lid o-rings.

~HopSing.

...and possibly gas feed lines, gas diconnects, tank side connections and leaky regulators...

 

[HopSing]

...and possibly gas feed lines, gas diconnects, tank side connections and leaky regulators...

Absolutely! Those are tested without any kegs connected in the same way. Pressurize, turn off Co2 tank and monitor gauges. It needs to hold for at least 24 hours. If the gauges drop after 24 hours it's a micro-leak, but I'm not too concerned about it.

Also during the empty keg test, I forgot to mention that the room temp should be fairly consistent. A significant drop in temp could drop the gauges with the CO2 tank off.

~HopSing.

 

[balrog]

Good point about the temp. PV=nRT and all that.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

socket driver. I did find a leak here but it was not loose. If anything it was over tightened.

Use oetiker clamps. Those worm clamps are much more prone to leaks.

 

[jack13]

CO2 absorption will certainly continue until the beer has reached the temperature/CO2 pressure equilibrium point, which can be predicted and controlled using our favorite carbonation table.

If you simply apply "chart pressure" for your beer's temperature and aim for a typical ale carbonation level (the middle of the range is roughly 2.4-2.5 volumes) it will take close to a couple of weeks for a full 5 gallon corny keg to reach equilibrium.

That would be for straight CO2, of course, but if you're carbing your keg on beer gas it still takes time to infuse the entire volume with the CO2 component...

Cheers!

The chart doesn't say anything about time. Is the underlying assumption that it's "eventually"? So a couple weeks?

 

[day_trippr]

iirc someone actually took on the attempt to quantify "time" in a carbonation calculator and posted something about it on HBT within the last couple of years. I'd have to try digging for it.

But, in my experience, 5 gallons of under say ~1.015 FG in a corny keg held at 36°F and 12 psi straight CO2 takes a bit over 2 weeks to reach equilibrium. That corresponds to the green line in this chart that @Bobby_M posted in this thread (which might be worth reviewing)...

I mention final gravity because when I used to fully carbonate my 11% imperial stout that finishes somewhere around 1.024-028 it took nearly twice as long just to get to 2.0 volumes. But I switched to beer gas a few years ago so now I only carb it 1.2 volumes...

Cheers!

 

[jack13]

2. There was a very slight leak at the gas post which only occurred when the QD was connected.

I'm pretty sure that was my original problem, too.

 

[jack13]

iirc someone actually took on the attempt to quantify "time" in a carbonation calculator and posted something about it on HBT within the last couple of years. I'd have to try digging for it.

But, in my experience, 5 gallons of under say ~1.015 FG in a corny keg held at 36°F and 12 psi straight CO2 takes a bit over 2 weeks to reach equilibrium. That corresponds to the green line in this chart that @Bobby_M posted in this thread (which might be worth reviewing)...

I mention final gravity because when I used to fully carbonate my 11% imperial stout that finishes somewhere around 1.024-028 it took nearly twice as long just to get to 2.0 volumes. But I switched to beer gas a few years ago so now I only carb it 1.2 volumes...

Cheers!

Cool. I usually do somewhere between the green and blue line: Start with a couple days at 20-25, then drop to serving pressure. (Keezer temp about 45F).

 

[gnef]

For others looking at possible leak sources, if you are using a taprite regulator with original valve stem, it has an integrated o-ring seal, and I have had mine fail in the past after many years of use - so it was leak free for a very long time, and then all of a sudden became exceptionally leaky. This is one reason I no longer leave my CO2 tank on. I always disconnect my kegs and turn off my tank. I started doing this after losing one tank to a leak, and I am determined not to waste any more CO2. I have so many pieces to my gas system now that I know that even if I have no leaks now, I will eventually develop one, so I'd rather just keep it off when not in use.

For leak testing, I personally use a method similar to what is posted above. I always start with the regulator alone with shut-off valve closed, and then work my way down, one piece at a time. If I am really paranoid, I'll let things sit for a week or more - I have some regulators that will be fine for a couple months, but after about 3 months will have leaked enough to be noticeable - I'm not entirely sure if it is an exceptionally small/slow leak or just the slow permeation through the gasket. Either way, I keep my tanks off.

 

[Aristoi]

For others looking at possible leak sources, if you are using a taprite regulator with original valve stem, it has an integrated o-ring seal, and I have had mine fail in the past after many years of use - so it was leak free for a very long time, and then all of a sudden became exceptionally leaky.

Do you have a picture of what original version regulator or part you are talking about? Thanks

 

[fun4stuff]

I use soapy water but i heard this stuff works well:

Camco 10324 Gas Leak Detector with Sprayer - 8 oz https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EDUTMC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_TNgnEbS4YYHP1


I have also resorted to dipping parts of my system in large clear buckets/bowls of water to look for gas bubbles.

My last few leaks have all been from bad QDs. I have also had an o-oring on the post go bad and cause a leak.... there is a very small rent in the o-ring that was really easy to overlook.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Do you have a picture of what original version regulator or part you are talking about? Thanks

I think he's talking about the part in the link. The pictures are very helpful

https://www.homebrewing.org/Taprite-Co2-permanant-O-ring-for-Nipple_p_3726.html

 

[Deadalus]

I think he's talking about the part in the link. The pictures are very helpful

https://www.homebrewing.org/Taprite-Co2-permanant-O-ring-for-Nipple_p_3726.html

Is it common to have some sort of gasket at that connection? As soon as I saw this I checked and one regulator had one the other didn't. I picked up CO2 and asked for this gasket and the Airgas guy had a pack of gaskets so I brought them and installed. I am now carefully testing for leaks which involves repeated keg sampling...

 

[gnef]

I think he's talking about the part in the link. The pictures are very helpful

https://www.homebrewing.org/Taprite-Co2-permanant-O-ring-for-Nipple_p_3726.html

Yup, that is it exactly. Their pictures show exactly where it would be on the valve stem.

Is it common to have some sort of gasket at that connection? As soon as I saw this I checked and one regulator had one the other didn't. I picked up CO2 and asked for this gasket and the Airgas guy had a pack of gaskets so I brought them and installed. I am now carefully testing for leaks which involves repeated keg sampling...

That particular gasket is only for taprite regulators with their custom valve stem that has that integrated gasket. All other major manufacturers rely on a separate gasket. I personally prefer the nylon ones, but have also used the cardboard style. They should really be considered one time use for the cardboard ones, and the nylon ones should also be replaced regularly (I am guilty of keeping them far too long, and have learned my lesson). I try to keep enough spares on hand that I can just replace it when I put a regulator on a tank - which isn't too often, as I have enough regulators and tanks where I need them, and really only take off the regulators when the tank goes empty or if I'm traveling with them for some reason (I have 3 jockey boxes, so I take my beer around in kegs sometimes). I also have standardized to 20# tanks (I have five) and 50# tanks (Only two), so the regulators on the 50# tanks tend to stay attached for many years at a time.

ETA - I forgot about a different style gasket that I have! I once bought a handful of the gaskets that actually screw into the interior threads of the tank valve. It works similarly to the integrated gasket of the taprite regulators, but you can't use them with taprite regulators because the two gaskets won't seal on each other, and you'll actually increase the likelihood of a leak. I can find a link for anyone that is interested.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

If believing the gas QD is the leak, simply replace it. Did the leak stop?

 

[Aristoi]

Thanks for the link guys. I dont have a leak there, mine is stable with valve shut after wye adapter from regulator which makes that not the source. All my newer taprites have that style gasket inside the brass fitting and i have an older Taprite regulator ~15yo with a conventional oring (similar to other nylon/fiber style gaskets) that has never given me a problem, (original oring too).

I have had both nylon and taprite style gaskets and prefer the taprite gasket version. I find the nylon is too subjective on amount of torque and it relaxed on me over time with the weight of regulator and have sprung a leak that way it went away with a retorque. I have since converted to all Taprite so i know when i bottom brass on brass the gasket is fully compressed in the groove of mating surface and will do its job. I also put a thin film of keg lube there as insurance.

 

[LittleRiver]

... taprite regulator ...integrated o-ring seal....

I had one of those go bad on me. I didn't have the time/desire to order a new Taprite seal, so I went to Lowes and bought a pack of #9 O-rings (5/8"OD x 7/16"ID x 3/32").

They fit perfectly in the Taprite fitting, and I haven't had a leak there since. I never did order Taprite seals, and don't intend to since the #9 O-rings work so well.

The other leak I had trouble tracing down was caused by the dip & gas tube O-rings on a keg that was almost brand new.

 

[eric19312]

Glad OP got it fixed but for others coming across this thread I had similar issue. Sometimes I might get 10 kegs out of a 5 pound bottle, other times I'd go through a full 20 pound bottle in a week or so. Local CO2 guy wondered if I was running a restaurant or bar.

Last year I switched all my liquid and gas lines to EVABarrier 4mm ID and all my connections to push fit fittings all from Brewhardware.com. I also started using keg lube every time. A tiny dab on each of the 5 main o-rings, every time. No more leaks on the serving side and my cylinders are lasting well. I am still going through a fair amount of CO2 force carbing in unitank and doing closed transfers but just not having the issues I had with PVC lines and worm clamps before.

 

[balrog]

I also started using keg lube every time. A tiny dab on each of the 5 main o-rings, every time.

This.

[and i can't help it: "Brian Fantana: They've done studies you know. Sixty percent of the time it works every time."]

 

[brew703]

I've had leaking issues, mainly from the keg post where the o-ring gets damaged from tightening down the post.