A short note on sanitary (Tri-Clamp) fittings

[tipicreeper]

Sanitary fittings are used mainly in the consumable liquids and biopharmaceutical industries.

Being that I am a custom machinery builder for the bio-pharm industry, I will attempt to convey what I know about sanitary piping for those who may not know their full use.

From a quick disconnect view, this type of piping is very effective and easy to use. If one is attempting to keep a sanitary system like in a food processing or pharmaceutical application there are other things to consider.

The whole idea of sanitary piping is to reduce bio-burden in the fluid path. The piping is sized by the outside diameter of tubing used in the fittings and the clamping flanges are common to certain multiple sizes. The key difference in keeping a sanitary system is in the gaskets between the clamping points. There are also great considerations to the surface finish of the fitting’s fluid path. The ASME BPE standard is an internal polish of at least 32 Ra. In essence, no stepped transitions or scratches where bugs can grow.

For instance, a ½” sanitary fitting has a ½” tubing OD and ¾” has a ¾” OD. Both fittings use the same clamp & gasket profile but the ½” fitting has a .370” inside diameter and the ¾” has a .620” ID. To match the tubing ID’s

The same goes for 1” and 1 ½” piping. They use the same clamps & gasket profile but the ID of the gaskets are different. So, it is important to choose the correct gasket for the application.

So, if one was to make a transition from 1” piping to 1 ½” piping a person could just connect the fittings choose a gasket and apply the clamp; but from a fluid path bio-burden perspective, it would be proper to have a 1 ½” to 1” reducer and the appropriate gaskets on each side.

From a pure sanitary situation once an NPT connection is made, a transition to a non-BPE tank, a barbed fitting, or atmosphere, the system is no longer technically a sanitary system. There are sanitary hoses, and fittings to create sanitary hoses. These can be quite expensive and can be made at home but are generally custom made using appropriate materials by high dollar companies.

Many vendors supply sanitary fittings. By far the one that is most largely recognized is McMaster-Carr.
McMaster-Carr

I have found some less expensive places but I have OEM accounts with these people so YMWV.

For 316 & 303 Stainless:
Casella Sales & Marketing (They also do custom welded manifolds)
Valves, Gemu Valves and Distributor, Diaphragm Valves, Sanitary Valves, Aseptic Valves, Valves and Fittings, Sample Valves, Bleed Valves, Gemu Diaphragm Valves, Sanitary Diaphragm Valves, Stainless Steel, Stainless Fittings, BPE Fittings, ASMI BPE Fi (Sales contact Ira Colby)

For Polypropylene (Max 180 deg F) & PDVF (Max 240 deg F), (They also do custom welded manifolds)
BioConnexx, Inc. - Home (Sales contact Art Quade)

I hope this doesn’t come across as a soap box, I just thought to throw it out there, it may help with the greater understanding.

If anyone is interested send me a PM, I may be able to get better pricing from the above vendors and would be happy to play intermediary at no cost.

Cheers,
David

 

[Brewers Hardware]

I hope this doesn’t come across as a soap box, I just thought to throw it out there, it may help with the greater understanding.

Cheers,
David

I think this is great information. I think most people are under the misconception that somehow by just using the fitting itself they have a completely sanitary system even though all their transfer hoses use barbs and worm clamps. I've always wondered how B3 and now Blichmann could have an NPT thread right in line with a sanitary fitting and still call it sanitary. Now I know; they're most likely just ignorant of the fact that it's no longer sanitary. Not bashing on either company as I think they are both great companies and I doubt they would intentionally mislead people.

 

[tipicreeper]

Thank you Derrin,
I would never begin to slam any product manufacturer.
When it comes to sanitary, it's all about compromise. How much is enough. Some of those items are great from an industrial setting but, you are right they would never fly in a bio-pharm application.
Cheers,
David

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I think most people know that if you have any threaded fittings in your system it is NOT sanitary. I will be using Tri-clamps because with B3's recent pricing increase on SS QD's it is just as cost effective for my system to use tri-clamps. Plus they look cool and will never need replacing.

Thanks for the info, it is good to know that there is someone around here (and several others) who have a good knowledge base about this stuff.

 

[pompeiisneaks]

I have a question about all this, though. I think the sanitation issue is always very important for beer, BUT that being said, As long as you run sanitizing fluids through the pipes you're going to get most of the issues killed then... Next you boil the wort processed in this system for an hour, killing any potential nasties anyway, right? Or am I missing something?

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

You are not missing anything, but to produce food for public consumption the US has very stringent codes that don't allow such connections. The likelihood of contamination is higher in a homebrew setup because of such things.

 

[Brewers Hardware]

I have a question about all this, though. I think the sanitation issue is always very important for beer, BUT that being said, As long as you run sanitizing fluids through the pipes you're going to get most of the issues killed then... Next you boil the wort processed in this system for an hour, killing any potential nasties anyway, right? Or am I missing something?

Like Tipicreeper pointed out it's all about compromise. It is my opinion (and practice) to clean everywhere I can reach and to make sure everything post boil is as clean and sanitized as I can get. I make it a point not to store, measure or crush grain near where I ferment.

But, when I break-down my brewery about every 8-10 batches I notice there is gunk in threaded locations and most notably between the hose and barbed areas on my hose ends even though I pump warm PBW through them while cleaning up each batch. Now I just make it a point to cut an inch off each end every other batch and by the time they are too short it's time to replace them anyway.

 

[Yambor44]

I think most people know that if you have any threaded fittings in your system it is NOT sanitary. I will be using Tri-clamps because with B3's recent pricing increase on SS QD's it is just as cost effective for my system to use tri-clamps. Plus they look cool and will never need replacing.

Thanks for the info, it is good to know that there is someone around here (and several others) who have a good knowledge base about this stuff.

Whats a tri-clamp?

 

[tipicreeper]

I have a question about all this, though. I think the sanitation issue is always very important for beer, BUT that being said, As long as you run sanitizing fluids through the pipes you're going to get most of the issues killed then... Next you boil the wort processed in this system for an hour, killing any potential nasties anyway, right? Or am I missing something?

You are absolutley spot on. The key word in your quote is "most". I was just commenting on theory and relation to bio-pharm applications. Nothing to be scared of.
In essence, using Tri-Clamp fitting for the ease of quick dissconnects is one thing. But, the main use of the product is for sanitary clean in place beverage & bio-pharm systems. After all if a scratch in a bucket can grow bugs then so can a step between a barbed fitting and a hose or incorrectly used sanitary piping.
Cheers,
David

 

[tipicreeper]

Whats a tri-clamp?

 

[kal]

You are not missing anything, but to produce food for public consumption the US has very stringent codes that don't allow such connections. The likelihood of contamination is higher in a homebrew setup because of such things.

Exactly. A food prep plant also doesn't want to shut down the lines 3 times/day to clean and sanitize them. We only brew for a few hours and then clean.

Thanks for the OP for posting. Very interesting read. There's one thing I really agree with is that everything is a compromise in the end. You have to pick and choose what's important to you.

Kal

 

[kal]

Here's how you would hold two pipes together with a tri-clamp:

Kal

 

[Anthony_Lopez]

subscribed... Perhaps I will go tri-clamp

 

[Superman3278]

Thanks for offering up your "working knowledge" on this subject, good post, subscibed for future reference.

 

[tipicreeper]

Kal,
That's the pic I was trying to find. Thank you for posting.
SMan,
Thanks for the support.
Cheers
-David

 

[Jim Karr]

Am I missing something, am I stupid, or do I see that the PVDF fittings on McMaster's website cost a whole lot more than Stainless 304?

 

[tipicreeper]

Am I missing something, am I stupid, or do I see that the PVDF fittings on McMaster's website cost a whole lot more than Stainless 304?

I think it largely depends upon the supplier & the turn around. My guess is that it a company was going to use sanitary piping it would probably be in SST. Generally, PVDF would be used in special applications, caustic or acidic fluid applications. In my experience, of the companies that make sanitery piping, only a handful make plastic.
I hope this may shed some light.
Cheers
-David

 

[Nessie]

So, how do you keep your hoses and hose connections sanitary in a homebrew setting? What's the DIY alternative to the super expensive $20/foot commercial hoses?

 

[kal]

So, how do you keep your hoses and hose connections sanitary in a homebrew setting? What's the DIY alternative to the super expensive $20/foot commercial hoses?

On the hot side of the brewing process (everything about wort creation) you don't need to be sanitary at all since everything will be boiled. In fact, there's no point as grain is not sanitary anyway. It can (and does) have a certain amount of mouse hairs and even feces in it.

I use QDs myself as I find them easiest to use:

A video showing how easy they are: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCMz7Pmu8YQ[/ame]

More info on how I built these here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/hoses

Cheers,

Kal

 

[Nessie]

On the hot side of the brewing process (everything about wort creation) you don't need to be sanitary at all since everything will be boiled. In fact, there's no point as grain is not sanitary anyway. It can (and does) have a certain amount of mouse hairs and even feces in it.

I use QDs myself as I find them easiest to use:

Hey Kal, thanks for the reply ... though it doesn't really get to the heart of my question. If I wanted to have a tri-clover CIP sanitary flexible hose connection that I wont have to chop the ends off every other brew, how would I go about creating one?

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but what's the point of sanitary fittings at all if you put a barb in your brewery?

Also, nice Series 800 Movado.

 

[orangehero]

Sanitary specification is a complex topic when dealing with food and especially pharmaceutical applications. Even the finish on stainless steel surfaces needs to be at a certain level of polish, which many of the popular homebrew pumps (e.g. March) lack even if you were to remove all threads not to mention all of the cheap Chinese stainless fittings.

"Sanitary" is a deeper rabbit hole than most homebrewers realize.

In my opinion using triclamp to hose barb fittings does not create an undue risk of contamination in the typical homebrew environment. On the hot side of the brewery triclamp fittings have several advantages such as modularity, standardization, and ease of cleaning. They are also relatively "quick" disconnects and with a little practice can be changed fairly quickly. Their use by homebrewers isn't necessarily to reach "sanitary" specifications, but they are doubtless easier to clean than threaded fittings.

 

[mattd2]

Another addition to the conversation is valves - typical ball valves will have a cavity around the ball which can (and does) get gunked up and nasty as wort will get trapped in it. So it is also important to break apart your ball valves for a good clean every so often.
You can get encapsulated sanitary ball valves, or use butterfly valves which do not have the cavity.

...In my opinion using triclamp to hose barb fittings does not create an undue risk of contamination in the typical homebrew environment...

I would agree - for hoses you are looking to have as smooth a transition from the hose to the barb as possible

Am I missing something, am I stupid, or do I see that the PVDF fittings on McMaster's website cost a whole lot more than Stainless 304?

PVDF is not a typical plastic - it is an engineering plastic which is normally used for severly corrosive products and pretty pricey. See this price comparison between other plastics http://www.wshampshire.com/plastics_properties_4.pdf or this one for comparison of piping costs http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/piping-materials-cost-ratios-d_864.html