A question to all from the "Primary Only" camp

[Photopilot]

I am doing primary only for all my current on deck brews now. One exception though is my Barley Wine. Even Revvy gave his approval for a secondary for this. I do only ales with a few exceptions coming up. In the past I put everything into secondary, I have had wines and meads there for 6 months or more.

On what type of beers do you go into a secondary? Please give examples of beers and situations you think requires secondary-ing. How long in secondary for each situation?

 

[boo boo]

I only secondary lagers, and I rack to a keg for actual lagering/secondary.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Gigantic beers (high gravity) where long term bulk conditiing is needed off the yeast, and fruited beers where a secondary fermentation will take place.

And lagers in bulk.

 

[mmb]

Barleywine and anything I need to add things to, be it hops, oak, or fruit. Times very based on what the beer needs. I think barleywine is the only one I'll bulk store in carboy. Most everything goes for aging in corneys...

 

[KingBrianI]

Big beers (barleywines, RIS, old ales, strong belgians) benefit from the bulk aging they recieve in secondary. The amount of time can range from a couple weeks to several months in this situation.

Dry-hopped beers are best dry-hopped in secondary. You want as little yeast around as possible when you dry hop. In this case, the beer only needs to be in secondary for as long as you dry hop (typically 3-10 days).

Lagers need to be "lagered" in secondary. This usually lasts 1-2 months.

You can also secondary any beer you would like to clear more. "Crash cooling" and/or the addition of finings are commonly done in secondary and greatly improve beer clarity.

 

[Photopilot]

Each question leads to more.

How big do the beers need to be to need a secondary?

In the case of adding to the secondary, do you give it the 3-4 weeks in primary then rack to the "additions" secondary?

How long do you guys leave in secondary?

Thanks KingBrian, I was typing when you posted.

As far as clarifying I have given up. I do not think i have ever had a clear beer. I will just make them all dark and delicious so no one cares. I take that back my beers clear when I bottled. Might have to start bottling again.

 

[cheezydemon3]

It is not the "BIG"ness of the beer, it is the time left on the yeast.

I am from the primary only camp, but I secondary most of my brews.

WHY???

I have 3 kids and a demanding job. If a brew sits 3 months on the yeast and I don't have time to bottle, I probably have time to rack.

I usually have 3-4 brews going at a time, I don't always have time to bottle.

 

[Beerthoven]

I secondary every beer I make for a week or so, just to reduce the amount of sediment in the keg.

 

[Photopilot]

I have 3 kids and a demanding job. If a brew sits 3 months on the yeast and I don't have time to bottle, I probably have time to rack.

Sounds like you need to start kegging. Seriously it makes the whole process so much easier. Imagine the process from your fermenter to your mouth only taking 10 minutes of effort? I am starting to dabble in bottles again mostly so I can give some away, brew larger batches, and keep some beers for long term. I would like to be able to sample months or years later and maybe have a number of porters down the road for vertical sampling. Maybe even have a beer cellar.

I think the concensus is the bigness of the beer = need for bulk storage away from the yeast, therefore secondary. Based on RIS, BW and other suggestions 8% is a good starting point for secondays with longer storage based on bigness?

 

[Revvy]

Dry-hopped beers are best dry-hopped in secondary. You want as little yeast around as possible when you dry hop. In this case, the beer only needs to be in secondary for as long as you dry hop (typically 3-10 days).

That's not entirely true....you want fermentation to be complete before dry hopping, since you don't want excess co2 pushing hop aroma out of your airlock. But yeast presence doesn't really cause any issue, at the point you would dry hop in secondary, most of the yeast has flocculated out of suspension and is in the trub.

Many of us dry hop in primary. If it's for a week, we do it after week 3 of out month in primary.

 

[KingBrianI]

That's not entirely true....you want fermentation to be complete before dry hopping, since you don't want excess co2 pushing hop aroma out of your airlock. But yeast presence doesn't really cause any issue, at the point you would dry hop in secondary, most of the yeast has flocculated out of suspension and is in the trub.

Many of us dry hop in primary. If it's for a week, we do it after week 3 of out month in primary.

I believe this is the episode I'm thinking of. http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/Brew-Strong/Brew-Strong-12-08-08-Dry-Hopping

Tasty states that yeast in the beer coat the hops and prevent a full extraction of their aromas.

 

[Revvy]

Well, that's their opinion......But like so much in brewing you ask 10 brewer's the same question you'll get 12 different answers.

My excellent red and my IPA both dry hopped in primary beg to differ.

 

[bungiman]

Long time listener, first time caller.

I am starting to explore all primary fermentation and had a few questions?

Assuming you are not brewing big beers,
How long do you let it ferment in primary?
After fermentation is done do you keg, pressurize and drink?

If you are brewing big beers,
What is a sign that it is time to move to secondary?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Long time listener, first time caller.

I am starting to explore all primary fermentation and had a few questions?

Assuming you are not brewing big beers,
How long do you let it ferment in primary?
After fermentation is done do you keg, pressurize and drink?

If you are brewing big beers,
What is a sign that it is time to move to secondary?

I usually let it sit for a month at varied temps. Yes, I keg, carb, and serve.

When fermentation is done (best determined by hydrometer) and the yeast have flocc'd it's time to goto secondary

 

[bungiman]

I usually let it sit for a month at varied temps. Yes, I keg, carb, and serve.

When fermentation is done (best determined by hydrometer) and the yeast have flocc'd it's time to goto secondary

If fermentation and yeast have flocc'd, why do a secondary?

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

Anything I will be storing for over 2 months I will put into a secondary. Sometimes my secondary is a keg, especially with lagers. My barleywine is really the only thing that gets a true secondary fermenter to live in for a few months. Lagers go into kegs, and get stored at 37F in the kegerator for 4-8 weeks. If I bottled, I would be more likely to secondary any beer that needed to be super clear. However, with kegging it's the keg that serves as your short secondary. Just wait for two weeks, then pour off a pint of cloudy beer...everything else is clear!

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

If fermentation and yeast have flocc'd, why do a secondary?

well, the context was for really big beers therefore a bulk conditioning would provide a consistency from serving to serving and given that some of these big beers (1.080+) can take up to 6 months to age properly.......

 

[ColoradoXJ13]

For me, it all depends on the particular beer....I'll go through a few types that are general description of what I brew...

1. Smaller beers that I will serve from kegs - Primary for ~3-6 weeks depending on when I have time to rack, then straight to keg.

2. Big beers that I will want to bottle - Primary ~3-6 weeks, then rack to keg or carboy, bulk age in keg/carboy until I feel like bottling (all depends on how big)

3. Beers with additive (fruit, dry-hopped, coffee, oak, etc) - Primary ~3-6 weeks, rack to secondary with additive for however long I feel is necessary, then keg or bottle depending on how I plan on serving. Beers I plan on serving from keg or bottling that need extended aging without the additive go to a keg or carboy, and either serve when I feel is ready or bottle.

To me, I think the beers I have let bulk age come out better than those I have aged in bottles. I am making a slow switch to bulk aging in kegs (b.c they take up less space in my workshop).

That being said, I have left beers for months in primary due to inability to rack (time, injuries, etc) and they came out fine.

 

[BierMuncher]

If fermentation and yeast have flocc'd, why do a secondary?

Now you've opened the debate.

I'm from the secondary camp so here goes.

• Free up the primary for another batch.
• I find that no matter how long a beer sits in the primary and no matter how clear the beer appears, once it's racked to a secondary I end up with incremental sediment in the secondary within 48 hours...even before adding gelatin for clarification. (Something about moving that beer away from a yeast dense environment that allows remaining yeast to continue to fall out.)
• I want that yeast in the bottom of the primary for my next batches. (Dry hopping would render the yeast cake undesirable for my purposes.)

So far I've no problem getting crystal clear beers inside of 4 weeks...even my 10der & Mild.

 

[TheManes]

Yesterday I had the pleasure of spending a couple of hours with the brewmaster of the Captain Lawrence Brewery and I asked him about this. He strongly advised against primary only brewing. His advice was 1 week in the primary, then 3 in the secondary.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Yesterday I had the pleasure of spending a couple of hours with the brewmaster of the Captain Lawrence Brewery and I asked him about this. He strongly advised against primary only brewing. His advice was 1 week in the primary, then 3 in the secondary.

This is also coming from someone dealing with much higher volumes and hydroscopic pressures. Our scale is MUCH different and can go beyond the boundaries.

 

[TheManes]

True, but he understands homebrewing and was referring to homebrewing. He hosts monthly homebrew club meetings in his brewery and advises members regularly, and I don't think it is fair to assume he has lost perspective as he does stay in touch with us little guys. Anyway, not arguing , just relaying some advice from a guy that makes some incredible beer.

 

[malkore]

I secondary every beer I make for a week or so, just to reduce the amount of sediment in the keg.

Same here. clearer beer, less sediment...as I always end up racking yeast from primary, usually when I let the auto-siphon slip on the bottom of the bucket it stirs up some crud.

 

[chemman14]

I currently have a barley wine fermenting away in primary. Are you guys saying I should secondary it for a couple months? I was thinking about doing this anyway as I got a bunch of hop material in the fermenter and want the most beer possible. I planned on letting this beer sit around for a year before I drank it so secondary time is not an issue

 

[susitna4]

Does anybody carbonate and then age a beer like barley wine? Or do you always secondary it for a year or so and then carbonate when ready to keg?

 

[Beerthoven]

If fermentation and yeast have flocc'd, why do a secondary?

Because I like to get as much beer as I can out of the primary, I inevitably suck up a fair amount of yeast and some trub when I rack. I let that stuff settle back out in a secondary rather than in the keg.

 

[lustreking]

I haven't done a secondary in a while. I'll even lager my lagers in the primary without any issues.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Unless there is a taste issue/concern, I don't generally rack to a secondary. I'm not overly concerned (at this stage) with clarity of the beer, and since I mostly do wheat beers, it's not a concern at all for most of my beers.

I can definitely see benefit in ultimately reducing the trub in bottles/kegs and greater clarity that comes with it though.

 

[mmb]

Does anybody carbonate and then age a beer like barley wine? Or do you always secondary it for a year or so and then carbonate when ready to keg?

I force carb my barleywine and then stick the keg in the back of the keg cooler to age. Clears up my carboys and keeps the barleywine from oxidizing.

 

[susitna4]

Thanks mmb.