A question to all from the "Primary Only" camp

[cheezydemon3]

I force carb my barleywine and then stick the keg in the back of the keg cooler to age. Clears up my carboys and keeps the barleywine from oxidizing.

Doesn't cold aging slow most of the processes that "age" a big beer, especially an ale?

 

[Photopilot]

I force carb my barleywine and then stick the keg in the back of the keg cooler to age. Clears up my carboys and keeps the barleywine from oxidizing.

In a related note. I don't think you need to force carbonate a beer to keep it from being oxidated, don't you just need to add some co2 and purge a few times then keep a head of pressure on it?

Just asking for theoretical reasons. I have no interest in kegging my BW. Last think I need is 9% ABV just a squeeze away. Plus I have found things don't age when in a keg. I'd like to be able to try this BW way down the road someday.

 

[mmb]

Doesn't cold aging slow most of the processes that "age" a big beer, especially an ale?

Racked to keg after 3 months in secondary and a month in primary. It's been in said keg since 2/14/09. I could pull the keg out but *shrug* there's plenty of room in the cooler.

In a related note. I don't think you need to force carbonate a beer to keep it from being oxidated, don't you just need to add some co2 and purge a few times then keep a head of pressure on it?

Just asking for theoretical reasons. I have no interest in kegging my BW. Last think I need is 9% ABV just a squeeze away. Plus I have found things don't age when in a keg. I'd like to be able to try this BW way down the road someday.

I force carbed because the yeast had been worked over enough, from 1.114 OG down to 1.020 FG for a 12.4% beer. Didn't want a flat bottle conditioned barleywine. I'll eventually end up BMBF the rest of the keg to bottles to lay it down for some additional aging.

Sure, you could just keep hitting it with some pressure to keep thing sealed up but if going to that much trouble, why not just finish the job?

 

[Photopilot]

Didn't want a flat bottle conditioned barleywine.

MMB could you please elaborate on this statement. Cause I don't want "flat bottle conditioned barleywine" if that is a bad thing. I was planning on secondary for 3 months or so, then bottling with some priming sugar and storing for months before tasting.

Reading it again, I am assuming you are saying bottle conditioning a BW won't carbonate properly or as well. I could keg and use your method but I am limited in kegs and my cooler (outside) is going to start to get warmer soon.

Just read it again and saw that 12% alc means no oomph left in the yeast. I used a combination yeast cake from a IPA and a starter of BW yeast on top of the wort to ferment my wort. OG was 1.085 I think and FG was around 1.0 going into secondary. I am still getting activity in the airlock, minimal but some. Can I assume the yeast is still kicking some or should i not trust it? Maybe my best options is to force carb it then bottle after 3 months in secondary.

 

[springer]

Yesterday I had the pleasure of spending a couple of hours with the brewmaster of the Captain Lawrence Brewery and I asked him about this. He strongly advised against primary only brewing. His advice was 1 week in the primary, then 3 in the secondary.

I met Scott a few month ago he was giving samples at Half Time in Poughkeepsie . Beer was good .

I used to live few blocks up Marble Ave from his brewery.rented a place when I was single on Center St. My whole family was from Pleasantville


I go 2-4 weeks depending on the beer in primary then crash cool the cake is so hard packed that I have to use the garden hose with a jet sprayer to get it off . I get very little sediment in the kegs I have been know to rack the same beer into a kicked keg without even rinsing the keg . Still clean by the second pull ...

if you look close you can read the etched name on the other side of the glass .

 

[mmb]

MMB could you please elaborate on this statement. Cause I don't want "flat bottle conditioned barleywine" if that is a bad thing. I was planning on secondary for 3 months or so, then bottling with some priming sugar and storing for months before tasting.

Reading it again, I am assuming you are saying bottle conditioning a BW won't carbonate properly or as well. I could keg and use your method but I am limited in kegs and my cooler (outside) is going to start to get warmer soon.

Just read it again and saw that 12% alc means no oomph left in the yeast. I used a combination yeast cake from a IPA and a starter of BW yeast on top of the wort to ferment my wort. OG was 1.085 I think and FG was around 1.0 going into secondary. I am still getting activity in the airlock, minimal but some. Can I assume the yeast is still kicking some or should i not trust it? Maybe my best options is to force carb it then bottle after 3 months in secondary.

I didn't trust that the yeast would be viable enough to bottle condition after hanging out in that much alcohol for that length of time. It was my first beer that large and I had way to much time invested in it to take the chance on it not carbing in the bottle, so I force carbed in a keg.

 

[BierMuncher]

Cream of Three Crops at 2 1/2 weeks, chilled and carb'd. Oh and before I get the whole "it ain't beer unless it's aged for a month in the primary" hogwash...18-21 days is the target for 75% of the ales at two local micro's I've visited. From grain to glass (bottle).

10 days primary.
5 days secondary clearing tank with gelatin (room temp)
3 days chilled in the keg (1st 36 hours at 30 PSI).

This is an exception as this is only a 1035(ish) beer. But there ain't no way I'm getting my guest beers to tap on time if I'm sitting on a yeast cake for three weeks.

Just sayin...

 

[brewagentjay]

I'm new to brewing but I plan on using secondary for all beers as to make routine process. Also to make room for another in the primary. - one exception is the 1 gallon apple juice cider I'm making right now.

 

[mikeysab]

Wow, this is an interesting topic. So far, I've been pretty much using a 4 week primary, then bottling and, well, bottle conditioning for anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks. It's my understanding that anything longer than 6 weeks sitting on all that primary yeast will initiate autolysis, which is extremely undesirable. It seems that everyone posting to this thread already knows that though, but if not, that's one reason to get it out of primary before a certain point. I happen to be a primary only guy on small beers, but then again, I only brew 1.060 to 1.070 beers. I do this to avoid longer maturing periods and longer carbonation periods. Right now I'm on a Tap a Draft and assorted sized bottle rotation, so this is what works for me. I only naturally carbonate, so it limits my options as far as conditioning. I'm planning on brewing a big beer of around 1.090 in the near future, and I will probably secondary that one, but then again, I just drew a pint of cider out of the primary because I'm out of cold beer, so what do I know?

 

[chemman14]

I didn't trust that the yeast would be viable enough to bottle condition after hanging out in that much alcohol for that length of time. It was my first beer that large and I had way to much time invested in it to take the chance on it not carbing in the bottle, so I force carbed in a keg.

Couldn't you just pitch more yeast at bottling and alleviate this issue?

 

[mmb]

Couldn't you just pitch more yeast at bottling and alleviate this issue?

It would have to be yeast pitched at high krausen for it to stand a chance in a strong alcohol solution. I don't think just dumping a vial in or adding some dry yeast would cut it at that point.

 

[Photopilot]

MMB,
Now that you've explained it to me it makes very good sense. Provided you have a keg.

I am not sure about the long term cool storage in a keg though. I guess if you have the resources, which I do not. I will keg, force carb my BW then bottle from there. Then go to long term storage in bottle.

 

[caphector]

I'm curious; I've seen the general recommendations on bigger beers getting aged longer. Are there any minimum guidelines, assuming you pitched enough yeast? Wondering because I've got a RIS going now and I'd prefer to not start drinking it until it's gone from good to better. My last batch, a porter that hit 6.7% ABV turned a corner at about 8 weeks in bottle. How much longer might a 9.5% beer take?

I know this isn't an exact science, just wondering how long people tend to wait for a beer like that. I'd been thinking 4-6 months.

 

[mikeysab]

4 to 6 months is perfect. Perfect to wait another 4 to 6 months. I've had a belgian quad conditioning for 4 to 6 months and it's not even carbed yet

 

[jds]

... It's my understanding that anything longer than 6 weeks sitting on all that primary yeast will initiate autolysis, which is extremely undesirable...

I split a 10 gallon batch of IPA with my neighbor. His half sat in his basement in the primary fermenting bucket for nine months. We bottled it, and I drank my share. No autolysis, no oxidation. I had taken my half of the batch in a keg out of the serving rotation with a half-gallon or so left in it and "forgot" it in the basement for the same amount of time.

Side-by-side tastings weren't exactly the same, since I had oaked my half of the IPA, but there weren't any off-flavors in the batch that sat on the primary yeast for nine months. Both samples had lost most, if not all, of the hop nose over that time period.

That leads me to think that both the autolysis and oxygen-permeable bucket issues are overblown (at best), and not really a factor for the homebrewer.

 

[Revvy]

That leads me to think that both the autolysis and oxygen-permeable bucket issues are overblown (at best), and not really a factor for the homebrewer.

I've been saying BOTH those things for years.

 

[Beernik]

Autolysis generally isn't a problem for beer. It only occurs when the yeast use up all the free nitrogen in the wort. In making beer, if any kind of mashing or grain steeping is done, there should be more than enough free nitrogen in the wort for the yeast to consume all the fermentables before they run out of nitrogen. If they don't run out of nitrogen, it doesn't really matter how long it sits.

 

[ben_j8mmin]

Now you've opened the debate.

I'm from the secondary camp so here goes.
(Something about moving that beer away from a yeast dense environment that allows remaining yeast to continue to fall out.)

[/LIST]

This is very interesting, If your saying raking to a secondary yields more sediment falling out than what would have fallen that week if it had not been raked.