A q about astringency

[AzOr]

I’m currently brewing a batch and had a question.

I got a new cereal killer and milled my grains a bit finer than I planned. I overshot my sg by about 12 points. I didn’t have a stuck sparge, but I used rice hulls as a precaution.

Ok ok, I’ll ask my question. Would I be able to taste if the wort was astringent, due to my milling? The wort taste great with not even a hint of astringency. I’ve always read that milling too fine would lead to stuck sparges and possible astringency.

 

[phendog]

I think the sweetness of the wort would overshadow the astringent off flavor you may find in your finished product. If your grain husks ended up particularized, you may well indeed have an astringent beer when finished. Also, if your pH was off, it could exacerbate. I hope it turns out ok!!

 

[RM-MN]

I’m currently brewing a batch and had a question.

I got a new cereal killer and milled my grains a bit finer than I planned. I overshot my sg by about 12 points. I didn’t have a stuck sparge, but I used rice hulls as a precaution.

Ok ok, I’ll ask my question. Would I be able to taste if the wort was astringent, due to my milling? The wort taste great with not even a hint of astringency. I’ve always read that milling too fine would lead to stuck sparges and possible astringency.

You've been given bad information about fine milling and astringency. It turns out they aren't related. You can mill as fine as your system will allow without astringency so long as your mash pH is within certain bounds and you don't oversparge. To get the tannins you need the pH to go over about 6.0 and the temperature to be over about 170F when that happens. To get to those conditions usually requires fly sparging because the continuous flow of sparge water will raise the pH and as most brewers want the maximum yield of sugars they would use hot water to dissolve the most they can. Their indicator that they are approaching the limit of pH is that the gravity of the wort coming out approaches 1.010. With batch sparging you probably cannot get close to that low gravity and since there is little gain by using hot water you can avoid the chance completely.

 

[AzOr]

Thanks to both of you. I batch sparge so I don’t even check ph. Hopefully the beer will be fine.
After I sparged there was a layer of sand/concrete layer on top.

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks to both of you. I batch sparge so I don’t even check ph. Hopefully the beer will be fine.
After I sparged there was a layer of sand/concrete layer on top.

I haven't been checking the pH but I do batch sparge for BIAB to get to volume since the pot I am using is a little too small for full volume mashing. Since I have a refractometer it is really fast and easy to check the gravity of the wort at various stages so I started sampling the sparge. The first sparge is nearly at the gravity of the first runnings since I use only a small amount for each sparge due to equipment limitations. By the their sparge I was still getting 1.030 which should infer a fairly decent pH level. I also use cold water for my sparge so even if the pH was getting a bit high I wouldn't be extracting the tannins anyway.

 

[LarMoeCur]

I think you are ok.

The Crush can affect astringency but it nothing to worry about. I've had some great BIAB beers where the brewer started with damn near flour. No astringency at all. I think most causes of astringency in home brewing comes from over fly sparging combined with not monitoring the pH of the sparge. As the sugars are rinsed from the mash the pH will start to rise. Once the mash SG is down around 1.016 and the pH above 6 you are approaching the tannin extraction point. The finer the crush the quicker the extraction. Now if you monitor either the SG of the running or the pH of the running you should never reach the tannin extraction point. Sparge water temperature is a factor also but a whole different conversation.

You batch sparge so no worries unless your doing something weird like 10 sparges with 212 degree water.

 

[passedpawn]

I've brewed a LOT of beer during the last 20 years. My first several all-grain batches had some astringency. It was like an uncoated aspirin on the back of my tongue.

Then, it went away, never to return.

I think back on what changed. One thing for certain, I've milled grains every possible way, fine as flour, course grind, and never had astringency again.

I believe that in the beginning, I was trying to maximize efficiency, and I'd sparge 3 or 4 or more times. It's my guess that the problem for me was oversparging, where the pH of the grain bed get too high, and tannins were leeched out into the wort. That's my guess. I only sparge once or twice now.

 

[brandonlovesbeer]

Astringent? From the Crush?
You many have added the strike water too hot or something. Typically the astringency comes from mashing or striking to hot... At least in my experience.

 

[brewmore71]

Okay, i too need help on this topic
I have been AG brewing for about a year.
Always had grain pre crushed with good flavor results but poor efficiency and decided to buy a mill recently. I have made four batches with finer crush .030- .035 and have better efficiency (and a few stuck sparges when I tried draining too quick.)An Ipmerial pumpkin ale(dark) and oatmeal stout (latest beer still in primary but sample seemed very good)both seemed to taste great ,but the reddish holiday ale using us04 and a dry hopped brown ale using 1056 both turned out bad with muddled malt and hop flavor, alot of haze after being kegged for a few weeks and (a wierd off taste to the spiced holiday ale which could have been the 04 yeast that I'm not used to) a dry bitterness to them both.
I never used to checked my ph or water minerals because i was happy with results before changing crush.
I did check ph for both off batches with strips about 5 min into mash and it seemed to be around 5 or lower on color match strip.
I have done several lighter color ipa's and a red using all the same steps( mash, lauter until free of particles, batch sparge) that turned out great before crushing my own grains.
I'm beyond frustrated and puzzled....any advice on what the issue could be? Thanks in advance!

 

[user 70770]

If you're concerned about it, it's nothing 1 or 2 ml of lactic acid added to the sparge water won't fix.

 

[MockY]

This is most likely due to alkaline sparge water. If your residual alkalinity in the sparge water is high, you will extract tannins which will lend a harsh bitterness that never will go away.