A higher gravity Dunkelweisse...bock?

[Evan!]

I was debating with a friend over whether a "bock" was absolutely required to be bottom-fermented and lagered. I know that, as a general rule, bocks are lagers, but what would you call a dunkelweisse that has a gravity higher than the BJCP guidelines, but is still top-fermented?

What I really want to do is brew an Aventinus-like batch (with 1/2oz of smoked peated malt), but I don't feel like lagering. I know that Aventinus is technically a Wheat Doppelbock, so I imagine they probably use bottom fermentation and lagering. If I make a higher-gravity dunkelweisse, but top-ferment, I guess that would make it a doppeldunkelweisse? Whatcha think?

 

[Mikey]

I believe that there are no 'rules' that dictate that a bock has to be either a lager or an ale, so you can (and should) use traditional weizenbier yeast to be true to style

 

[Evan!]

I believe that there are no 'rules' that dictate that a bock has to be either a lager or an ale, so you can (and should) use traditional weizenbier yeast to be true to style

All About Beer's definition states that bocks are lagers.

Oh, I knew that I could use ale yeast, but I was just wondering if I could still call it a bock. I'm under the opinion that I cannot, since I used Wyeast 3333, German Wheat, which is an ale yeast.

Anyway, it's fermenting as I type this. Should be a beastly bastard. If 3333 hits attenuation like it should, the ABV will be up around 9.5%...woohoo! So, yeah, it's basically a higher-gravity dunkelweizen with 0.9oz of Scottish Smoked Peated Malt utilized in the mash, so I's calling it a Smoked Doppeldunkelweizen.

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

The "Weizenbock" style was pretty much created by Schneider with Aventinus IIRC. It's definitely a top-fermented beer, although it may be bottled with a lager yeast (an academic point for most homebrewers). It's given the 'bock' designation based on its strength, not yeast, in this case. The 3333 should make a fine Weizenbock.

 

[PT Ray]

I take a weizenbock as being defined by the high precentage of wheat and strength, not by the yeast used.

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

Weizenbock is a category of wheat beer which has as one defining component the use of Saccharomyces cerevisiae, or top-fermenting yeast. For sticklers of the Reiheitsgebot, it's technically "illegal" to make a lager wheat beer. Not that it should prevent anybody from trying if they're so inclined!

 

[Evan!]

Baron,

You are correct that Aventinus uses top-fermenting yeast; as I've come to understand it, in this case the "bock" designation refers to the strength of the beer, not the style. However, BJCP et al defines the "bock" style as a lager.

I guess I'm fine calling my beer a Smoked Wheat Doppelbock.

One other thing: does anyone know what is specifically involved in the process of double-fermentation? Like many bottom-fermenting bocks, Aventinus is "double-fermented", which I assume means a second fermentation in the bottle. Is this really just another name for what we do when we homebrewers prime at bottling?

 

[Evan!]

oh, and to add to how excited I am about this beer, I went into my fermentation room today...the only beer currently in primary is the wheat doppelbock...and the whole room smelled like ripe bananas. Oh, man, I can't wait. Go Wyeast 3333!!!