A few questions about cider

[Tantalar]

Sorry to ask so many questions but I am new and just figuring things out I promise this is probly the last bit of questions for a while!!

1) My cider is coming along great after 3 days. One of them however, has overflowed into the airlock. I am worried about this but it seems that it is still bubbling so it's not blocked (so it wont explode) I didn't strain out the mashed apple and pulp because I figured it would be a nice addition to the fermentation process. Should I always strain out the mashed apple and apple pulp before primary fermentation?

2) It's going to be time to rack my cider fairly soon. I have heard about using tubes but it seems that you are losing a lot of cider if you simply "avoid" the bottom part of the carboy where the yeast and dead yeast is. When the time comes, can I pour it into and through a strainer that has cheesecloth on it in order to filter out the yeast?

3) How do I keep the leftover yeast so I can use it again for another batch of cider? I have heard of people using the same yeast for decades. Do I need to stop fermentation early if I want to save any yeast for another batch? I figured if I use a strainer I will have a bunch of dead and living yeast in the cheesecloth.

4) If I am trying to add carbonation after my cider is all done can I boil the finished product down a little bit, then just add seltzer water to it? It would carbonate the cider and if I boiled the cider down, the seltzer water would replace the liquid lost during the boiling right?

 

[GroovePuppy]

1) I'd say no. I bet the pulp has some nutrients that the yeasties will thank you for. In fact I'm planning a scrumpy at some point that will have a handful of raw meat in the primary.

2) Nope. Don't do it. You'll oxeganate the cider. It's bad for beer and I bet it's bad for cider.

3) You could wash the yeast (see the thread). What yeast are you using? I would guess Pasteur at $2.00 a vial. That's not worth washing. Besides if you read the yeast washing thread you'll understand you shouldn't keep using it for years. The professionals that do that take the yeast from krausen which is too risky for a homebrewer, especially if you weigh the risk of infection against $2.

4) If you bottle or keg it within a few months of first pitching the yeast why not just use priming sugar? Seltzer water wouldn't work unless it was 80-90% of the volume so you're expending a lot of expensive energy to make an apple syrup, not to mention you'll boil the alcohol off first!!!!

 

[Tantalar]

Great thanks a bunch!

 

[CandleWineProject]

1. I agree with Puppy.

2. Puppy is right. Oxygen allows bacteria to grow, and besides, if you cut open an apple and leave it out, it turns brown, so the juice will do the same thing.

3. Yes, you can wash yeast, but I do not recommend it. It can be infected or have off flavors. The practice is a little more common with beer because beer has such a short brewing cycle, but real craft cider takes several months, so it can cause more problems. Besides, with yeast so cheap, it is better to just buy new clean healthy yeast that won't mess up your batch.

4. I don't think you can. Distilling boils the beer/wine/cider at 175 degrees, which is when alcohol evaporates off, leaving the water. So you would be boiling of the alcohol first and the water second. Did you add any sugar to the batch to begin with? I ask because the more sugar there is to convert to alcohol, the less apple flavor there would be if you just added selter or 7-up without somehow condensing it. Ohhh, your solution could be to make a Pommeau, which is apple juice with apple brandy added. Then you could add selter, especially if you worked from concentrate.

 

[Tantalar]

I added sugar to every one of my tests. The ones that I used extra added pulp and mashed fruit in... they have had insane overflow 2 times. I gave a lot of room and I figured I gave too much room. I had to open them and clear out some of the stuff because it got insane. It has continued to ferment after this (they were fermenting for about 2 and 3 days) The other ones without pulpy mashed fruit added have had no problems at all with overflow past the airlock however.

the one with the blended strawberry/blueberry has just gone insane though, I cant believe how much the yeast has taken over!!

My ciders are bubbling at about every 2.5 seconds, 3.5 seconds, and 4.5 seconds approximately. I don't know if they will speed up anymore or if they are going to start slowing down but all I know is that I am extremely excited to rack my ciders along with my other tasty tests

 

[CandleWineProject]

I added sugar to every one of my tests.

Why did you add sugar? I mean, what do you hope to accomplish by adding sugar?

 

[GroovePuppy]

Why did you add sugar? I mean, what do you hope to accomplish by adding sugar?

This, I assume!

 

[CandleWineProject]

The thread said "cider", not aplewein. I'm a purest who doesn't believe in adding sugar to make cider, so I ask the question to see if they know why they add it. If they say they did it to increase the alcohol content, that is cool. If they did it to make aplewein, that is also cool. But just to add it without thought - uncool.

 

[Tantalar]

I added sugar because I want to make a stronger cider. I plan to ferment until it is dry and I hope that the yeast will eat all of the sugar before the alcohol gets strong enough to kill the yeast! I have heard that bad things happen if there is left over sugar after all of the yeast is killed off by alcohol but I really dont know.

In general I don't really care what the actual definition of it is, just as long as it tastes remotely acceptable. I guess the only thing I dont want is something that tastes overly acidic. From what I gather, everything else can be remedied by secondary fermentation is that right?

I guess my goal is to make a cider that has the least calories, the most alcohol content, and the best taste. Those 3 things are the most important and it will probably be quite a while before I can figure out how to do that, but meanwhile I am going to experiment a lot to come up with things that simply taste really good and have high alcohol content

So apparently when I am racking, I don't want to risk aeration with my cider so I cant use a strainer on it. What about when I get to the very bottom where all the dead yeast is? Is it generally acceptable to strain out that and then keep it separate from the rest of it and use the strained portion for sampling or short term drinking? I would hate to let it go to waste if I can help it

 

[CandleWineProject]

Those are good reasons to add sugar, and yes, you are correct about potentially bad things. If the yeast isn't completely dead when you bottle and there is still sugar, then the yeast eats, makes CO2, which doesn't have anywhere to go. Pressure builds until something explodes. That's not to say you can't have it sweet, just that you have to make sure things are good and dead.

Apple cider/wine doesn't come out tasting really acidic, but, yes, you are right in that leaving it in the secondary for a few months will help it mellow.

Good luck with the experiments!