A few cyser questions from a noob

[Rhinofly]

My apple trees are covered in ripe apples and I was thinking of juicing up a bunch and getting out my beer making stuff to make a cyser...something I have never done before. I have a few questions.

I have pipins and golden delicious apples. The goldens are great to eat and the pipins are tart...I guess for cooking. Any idea which would be best for a cyser?

Should I pasturize the juice/honey or just use camden tablets before pitching the yeast? Does anyone here bother pasturizing fresh juice?

I was thinking of adding 2 lbs of honey per gallon of juice and fermenting dry...any recommendations on yeast?

Do I need to do the primary in an open fermenter or can I do it in a carboy?

Is there an optimal ambient temperature for primary/secondary fermentation?

My wine storage locker is held at 55 degrees...is this too cold for aging a cyser?


I was thinking of something along the lines of EdWort's Apfelwein but with my own juice and honey instead of sugar. I like that it can do the primary fermentation in the carboy.

Any suggestions for me?


Thanks

 

[effigyoffaith]

I think that a blend of the two would be best for a cyser. One apple variety by itself can be a little bland.
I would use campden just like a wine. It will be nicer too the juice than pasteurizing on the stove.
Others can chime in on yeast choice. It really depends on what you want.
Whether to start the ferment open depends on the initial SG. Two lbs of honey in 5 gal. should be low enough that it'll ferment fine straight in to the carboy. I think that what everyone does for apfelwien.
Good luck. It sounds tasty. I wish I had a couple of apple trees.

 

[EvilTOJ]

Definitely use both varieties of apples. Tart ones are great for cider, and the eating apples will add more sugar to the mix. I wouldn't pasteurize the honey, as it can drive off honey aroma. Just adding it as is will be fine. Apples normally have cider yeast on the skins, so if you juiced it and left it, most likely it'll start fermenting on its own and will be adequate. YOu can also just use campden to kill the wild yeast anyways and a neutral beer yeast will work fine too. Your storage locker is fine for aging, but too cool for fermenting for most strains of yeast.

 

[russb123]

he said 2 pounds per gallon, that would be ten pounds of honey in 5 gallons.

I think you may get some rocket fuel!

 

[BigKahuna]

he said 2 pounds per gallon, that would be ten pounds of honey in 5 gallons.

I think you may get some rocket fuel!

Depends on what you're aiming for. Most wine and mead that I make start at around 10 - 12%. IF you are looking for a hard cyder...closer to beer than wine....use 1# per gallon, and carbonate it. If you are looking for a nice apple wine...cyser....go ahead with 2# per gallon, but don't expect it to be ready at Christmas...this year.
Any of the good wine yeasts will give satisfactory results for what you're looking at, and if you go with the 1# per gallon, you could try a nice fruity ale yeast...maybe some s-04?

Sounds good either way.

 

[CBBaron]

he said 2 pounds per gallon, that would be ten pounds of honey in 5 gallons.

I think you may get some rocket fuel!

2# per gallon is a good amount for a wine like cyser. Should make a nice mead some where around 12% ABV.

I would not pasteurize and use Campden tablets to knock down the wild yeasts before pitching a good wine yeast. I did a similar cyser with purchased fresh pressed cider and 2#/gal of honey using Lalvin D-47 with great results.

A mix of apples would be a good idea also. Not sure about the ratios as I don't have much experience with making cider from scratch but I do know the best ciders use a blend of tart and desert apples.

The Cyser I made tastes like a mead with subtle apple flavors. It has a nice body and I really enjoy it. It is my favorite mead I have tasted so far, though I havn't tasted that many. I would say it is not much like Apfelwein.

Craig

 

[Tusch]

Agreed, if you are going to do a cyser, I think 2lbs per gal would be perfect. I don't think 1 lb would really allow for enough honey flavor. With 2lbs, yeah you will have 13% but if you give it the time it needs (probably a full year or more) I would love to have some of that myself

 

[Freezeblade]

according to my quick and rough calculations at work, the OG would be 1.125 for 2# per gallon in the apple juice, This is a pretty good starting OG for a good strong cyser, however if you're going to go the natural yeast route, I discourage that much, as you never know what the alcohol tolerance of your yeast will be. If you're planning on carbing this batch, I'd say probably a no-go on the D-47 either, as it's been known to poop out at 12% just when you don't want it to (it's happened to me and BigKahuna I know for sure) then you can't carb it. If you're going for a bone-dry cyser, I suggest Either the Lalvin EC1118 or some other Dry Champagne Yeast, either of these will ferment quite dry, and will still leave you the option of carbing it.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

My apple trees are covered in ripe apples and I was thinking of juicing up a bunch and getting out my beer making stuff to make a cyser...something I have never done before. I have a few questions.

I have pipins and golden delicious apples. The goldens are great to eat and the pipins are tart...I guess for cooking. Any idea which would be best for a cyser?

Should I pasturize the juice/honey or just use camden tablets before pitching the yeast? Does anyone here bother pasturizing fresh juice?

I was thinking of adding 2 lbs of honey per gallon of juice and fermenting dry...any recommendations on yeast?

Do I need to do the primary in an open fermenter or can I do it in a carboy?

Is there an optimal ambient temperature for primary/secondary fermentation?

My wine storage locker is held at 55 degrees...is this too cold for aging a cyser?


I was thinking of something along the lines of EdWort's Apfelwein but with my own juice and honey instead of sugar. I like that it can do the primary fermentation in the carboy.

Any suggestions for me?


Thanks

Hi Rhinofly: I think a 60:40 or a 70:30 ratio of pippin juice to g.delicious juice will give you a nice blend of tart/sweet.
I would NOT pasturize, I'd use camden tabs to sanitize the must & a sanitized blender to mix/dissolve the honey; it also super areates the must.
2lbs honey per gallon sounds just right for a nice 1st cyser.
Your choice on the fermentor, I like to use a bucket fermentor for primary because I don't have to worry about headspace & kreausen, also easy to stir (if you don't use the blender); if you use a carbouy for primary, leave a little extra headspace & be prepared for some blowoff, depending on the yeast strain.
Prime temps for most wine yeast are about 65-75 degrees F.
I bulk age all my mead/wine at room temp, usually about 68-72 degrees F.
As for yeast strain, my 1st choice would be Lalvin EC-1118 & this is why:

Lalvin EC-1118 (Prise de Mousse) : This is the original, steady, low foamer, excellent for barrel fermentation or for working on heavy suspended pulps. It is one of the most popular wine yeasts in the world. It ferments well at low temperatures, flocculates well, and produces very compact lees. It is good for Champagne bases, secondary (bottle) fermentations, restarting stuck fermentations, and for late harvest grapes. It is also the yeast of choice for apple, crabapple, cranberry, hawthorn, and cherry wines. It has excellent organoleptic properties and should be in every vinter's refrigerator. Alcohol toxicity is 18% and it ferments relatively fast. It tolerates temperatures from 39-95° F. It is not, however, tolerant of concurrent malolactic fermentation.

That's my 2 cents worth, hope you find some of it useful. Regards, GF.

 

[Rhinofly]

Everyone thanks for the great feedback.

Yes my intent is something like a dry winelike cyser at around 13% abv - To be bottled in champagne bottles and aged at least a year in my 55 degree cellar.

I just picked and juiced up some of the pippins and they measured out at 1.054 sg for the fresh juice, with a bit of suspended solids still. It also has a wonderful tart tang to the juice which made great fresh cider. Funny I have never juiced these before. The Golden delicious make the better eating apples but I think the pippins are better drinkers...if you know what I mean.

One last question....should I add the camden tabs to the must before or after I add the honey? As I understand it now I juice the apples, let it settle out a bit to remove some of the solids, then mix the juice with the honey, put it in the carboy and add the camden tabs. After about 12-18 hours I pitch the yeast...maybe add nutrient too? Or do I have it wrong somewhere?

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Everyone thanks for the great feedback.

Yes my intent is something like a dry winelike cyser at around 13% abv - To be bottled in champagne bottles and aged at least a year in my 55 degree cellar.

I just picked and juiced up some of the pippins and they measured out at 1.054 sg for the fresh juice, with a bit of suspended solids still. It also has a wonderful tart tang to the juice which made great fresh cider. Funny I have never juiced these before. The Golden delicious make the better eating apples but I think the pippins are better drinkers...if you know what I mean.

One last question....should I add the camden tabs to the must before or after I add the honey? As I understand it now I juice the apples, let it settle out a bit to remove some of the solids, then mix the juice with the honey, put it in the carboy and add the camden tabs. After about 12-18 hours I pitch the yeast...maybe add nutrient too? Or do I have it wrong somewhere?

Rhinofly: Since you plan on bottling in champagne bottles, I take it this will be a sparkling wine. You might consider adding tannin (or not) to your taste since it will be dry. As far as when to add camden goes, it's up to you. If I were going to use a blender to mix/dissolve my honey with juice, then I would sulfite (camden) the juice before adding the honey; if I were just going to stir then I'd sulfite after adding the honey. BTW, you need to crush those camden tabs, blender takes care of 'em in a jiffy. If you areate heavily & then add sulfites it sort of defeats the purpose of areating. Sulfites release a gaseous form of sulfur that kills off the bad stuff. So you'll need to areate after your initial sulfiting, but this can be done just by stirring; I just like to use the blender. You'll need to wait at least 24 hours after sulfiting to pitch your yeast. I always make a yeast starter A few hours ahead of when I plan on pitching, but simply following the directions on the yeast packet works too. As far as the suspended solids in your juice go, leave 'em. They won't hurt anything & will fall out with the rest of the lees in time. I would add some pectic enzyme though, that will help to deal with those solids. I always add yeast nutrient & yeast energizer to insure a good, healthy fermentation, and I add a wee bit of extra D.A.P. (diammonium phosphate), it seems to work well for me. Take you SG reading before you sulfite & add the pectic enzyme after the sulfites clear. Apparently sulfites tend to inhibit pectic enzyme, to exactly what degree I'm not sure, but Yooperbrew knows more about it than I do, maybe she'll chime in on the pectic enzyme/sulfites. Well, that's my long winded reply, hope you find it useful. Regards, GF.

 

[Rhinofly]

Well four hours of cleaning, coring, juicing gave me 1.5 gallons of golden delicious cider and 2.75 gallons of granny smith (or pippin or whatever that tart green apple tree I have in my backyard is). Thats a big job. But the fresh juice blend tasted great. It spent the night in a 5 gallon bucket with 3/4 tsp of potassium metabisulfite. Today I mixed in 3 lbs of carrot blossom honey and 5 lbs of raw wild mountain honey (from safeway). I micro-oxygenated for 2 minutes with pure O2 then pitched the ec-118 yeast. Initial gravity corrected for temperature was 1.108. Its now quietly starting to bubble. Thanks for all your help. I'll keep you all posted as it develops. For what its worth I took photos...but cant seem to directly upload them. Does this board not host photos?