A couple yeast starter questions

[MadDwarf]

Hi all,

I've read through a number of threads about yeast starters, and didn't see these two questions come up, but feel free to point me at a relevant thread if I missed it in my search.

First, making big starters from a small sample, either a single liquid yeast tube, or a smaller 16oz tube farmed from a previous batch. According to Mr. Malty, if I'm brewing 10 gallons (which I always do) and a strong ale, say 1.070 (which I do often enough), even using a stirplate I'll need to build up a 5.66 liter starter. I've been stepping up my starters a couple times for big beers, starting with 1 liter, but my biggest flask is 3L, and even the 5L "Andre the Giant" flasks I've seen won't hold that much.

I'd like to pitch the correct amounts without getting into brewing starter beers - my brewdays are hard enough to come by. What's the best way to go about this? Buy a 2-3 gallon carboy, and build a stirplate beefy enough to sit under it? Can I cool and decant the beer off a 3 liter starter, then add another couple liters of starter wort to get growth similar to a 5 liter starter, or will the yeast not bother reproducing?


Second question is about dry yeast. I know you're not supposed to use a starter for those. But what if I want to add one of those strains to my yeast bank? Will yeast from a starter made with dry yeast be viable if stored with glycerin, or one of the other storage methods discussed here? What about pitching onto a yeast cake, or washing yeast from a batch made with dry yeast? Wouldn't that have also used up the built-in nutrients, which is the reason usually given for not wanting to create dry yeast starters?


Thanks in advance for helping to clear up some confusion.

 

[ifishsum]

Regarding your second question, it's my understanding that the yeast cells will normally will store some nutrients as they sense their food supply dwindling. Once a beer has been made with a dry yeast, you can wash and save the yeast just the same as you would with any other because it is a liquid culture at that point.

The biggest difference with the dry packaging is that the shelf life is much longer due to the process used to dehydrate and condition the yeast for a longer dormancy. I'm fairly sure that the liquid yeasts are also conditioned in some way before packaging. It also seems to me that adding yeast nutrient to the wort when using washed/stored yeast cultures would be beneficial both for fermentation and future storage viability.

 

[Trubadour]

I'm working on a large starter right now and am using one of these that my dad gave me a while back...

6 Liter Tap-A-Draft Bottles. (4 bottles) :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies

The bottom is rounded, so I just set it in a one gallon bucket for it to sit upright... works great.

 

[MadDwarf]

Those are neat-looking bottles - I should pick some up for test batches. A rounded bottom pretty much rules out using a stirplate though, which would drive my required starter size even higher.