A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer

[Ohbsolutely]

Your water primer is, as it's been said, beyond helpful. I'm going to hit you with the nuts and bolts and just wanted to see if i'm on track…and yes I'm one of those who is taking the advice of the KISS method.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/centennial-blonde-simple-4-all-grain-5-10-gall-42841/

10 gal batch of the above.
100% distilled water (15 gal)

1 tsp of calcium chloride straight in the HLT (for both mash and sparge water).
3% sauermalz straight in the mash.

Question on sauermalz - will probably be using lactic acid. Unsure of how much to use. Swear I've been looking but 3% of the grist means?

Seriously, I have NOT been able to make a pale ale of any kind due to the fact that I live on some of the most mineral-packed water in Wisconsin. While I have done the 50/50 split of distilled/tap, I am tired of guessing.

Big thanks for the help.

 

[ajdelange]

100 grams of sauermalz would contain 1 - 2 grams of lactic acid. The lactic acid solution you buy at your LHBS is 88% lactic acid and has density 1.206 g/cc.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

AJ, you rock! You and Martin are my water gurus. Thanks for such a detailed reply. I guess not so surprisingly, I am an engineer. Even so, pretty much everything you wrote after "Many brewers are engineers..." my brain translated as "Wa wa waaa wa wah wa waaa...". My engineering is more of the dirt and concrete variety. Regardless, thanks for making this subject so understandable. If my professors (many, many years ago) had been as coherent I may have even enjoyed my chemistry classes. Bottom line is I will not sweat my bicarb levels unless I have a pH issue. Thanks - Chris

 

[Ohbsolutely]

100 grams of sauermalz would contain 1 - 2 grams of lactic acid. The lactic acid solution you buy at your LHBS is 88% lactic acid and has density 1.206 g/cc.

So either 8 oz of acid malt or 5ml of lactic acid should do the trick?

 

[ajdelange]

Even so, pretty much everything you wrote after "Many brewers are engineers..." my brain translated as "Wa wa waaa wa wah wa waaa...".

Let me translate "Wa wa waaa wa wah wa waaa...": A lot of arcane stuff that while it is really interesting and requires nifty and clever implementation has little practical effect

 

[old_tx_kbb]

With Noonan's Edinburgh water treatment example in the "Classic Beer 8 Style Series - Scotch Ale" . I don't see anyway possible for me to treat my Tennessee water to even come close to his example.

Using the water chemistry primer to come close to the Edinburgh example below, would I use 100% RO water and 2 tsp each of gypsum and calcium chloride?:

"For British beers: Add 1 tsp gypsum as well as 1 tsp calcium chloride

For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum."

Thank you for sharing your insight!

 

[drkwoods]

Hi, I have read about 40 pages of this thread and have gained a lot of info from it. It is a great way to get my feet wet about water chemistry and the importance of it as it pertains to brewing. Sorry if this has been asked already: I see a lot of talk about IPA's and it is clearly addressed in the baseline by the OP. But say I wanted to brew an aggressively hopped DIPA but I want it to have a nice clean 'soft palate'. Like Hill Farmstead's beers. Would I still follow the baseline for an IPA? Or more like the baseline for 'soft' beers? Or something different all together? Thanks, Mike

. I would say don't worry about the water that much. Get it in the middle with slight dominance of sulfate maybe something like.. chloride:sulfate 1:2 Then I would back off the bittering addition by 5-10% and first wort hop it. Makes a way bigger and predictable difference in hop "bite" and soften it without losing IBU. plus the water won't be "overdone" and still contribute nicely

 

[ajdelange]

If it's a physically realizable profile one can usually come pretty close to realizing it but the technique may involve sparging with carbon dioxide and dilution with deionized water. Depending on the qualities of your water it may be better to throw it out and use straight RO which, in any case, is the basis for this Primer.

Adding 1 tsp gypsum and 1/2 tsp calcium chloride should get you into the range of Noonan's water with the exception of the bicarbonate. I can't believe he wants the amounts of 'carbonate' (by which he clearly means either bicarbonate or alkalinity) listed in the table. That would lead to big problems. I did note, with interest, that one set of notes from an Edinburgh brewery said they used sodium bisulfate to combat alkalinity.

As with any dark beer you should be cognizant of pH problems. You shouldn't need alkalinity but ought to check pH.

 

[gbx]

With Noonan's Edinburgh water treatment example in the "Classic Beer 8 Style Series - Scotch Ale" . I don't see anyway possible for me to treat my Tennessee water to even come close to his example.

Using the water chemistry primer to come close to the Edinburgh example below, would I use 100% RO water and 2 tsp each of gypsum and calcium chloride?:

"For British beers: Add 1 tsp gypsum as well as 1 tsp calcium chloride

For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum."

Thank you for sharing your insight!

Not to be that guy, but why are you even looking at the water treatment section in a book? Maybe I'm wrong as I've never read Scotch Ale but I have Lager Brewing which is 5 years newer and its the standard stuff, ie classic brewing cities pofiles (without a cited reference). Similar to the tongue taste map that appears in all the old books, just ignore everything said about water treatment.

 

[ajdelange]

I wouldn't advise that at all. This particular member of the series has quite a bit of information about the water of Edinburgh which, as much of it comes from old brewery notes, has to be interpreted in terms of the modern way of thinking but nonetheless lends insight as to what the water was like and, in this case, how the brewers dealt with it. My advice to brewers who wish to go beyond the Primer is to garner as much of exactly this kind of information as they can and use it to prepare liquor with the general characteristics of the region whose beer they are trying to emulate. This, I believe, can give better results than worrying about matching a particular profile.

 

[opiate82]

So I am getting ready to make a Scottish Ale (Something close to Four Peaks Kiltlifter Clone by Scottland). I'm trying to figure out if I'd need acidulated malt for this grain bill following the primer and if so, what % of the grain bill. So far I have pretty much just followed the primer verbatim but I'm not sure which style this falls under for the basic guidelines.

9.5 lbs 2-Row
1.0 lbs C-80
0.5 lbs Carapils
2 oz Roasted Barely
0.5oz Peat Smoaked Malt

 

[ajdelange]

No. I wouldn't think so.

 

[old_tx_kbb]

Thanks again AJ

 

[Col_klink]

Happy New Year All!


I'm planning on doing my first all-grain batch within the next week or so. My well water here is horrible so I will be using all RO water.

Based on the info on this thread, Could someone check me on a couple of things?

This is a IPA (8 SRM) (clone of Foothills Hoppyum IPA)

Grain Bill-

11lb of US 2-Row Malt
1lb of US Caramel 20L Malt
8oz of US Caramel 40L Malt


1) I should deviate from baseline as follows: "Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum." Correct?



2) I plan on using the 88% Lactic acid solution instead of the Sauermalz. So to calculate how much of the lactic acid solution I need, I first came up with the ammount of Sauermalz I would use:

12.5 lb. (grain bill) * .02 (2%) = .25 pounds of Saurmalz

Based on that, and this statement-

"100 grams of sauermalz would contain 1 - 2 grams of lactic acid. The lactic acid solution you buy at your LHBS

is 88% lactic acid and has density 1.206 g/cc."

.25 pounds of Saurmalz = 113 grams

I figure I can put 2cc of the lactic acid soultion into a syringe to get 2.4 grams of lactic acid and that should get me where I want to be. Does this sound right?

As always, thanks for all the help!

-Klink

 

[ajdelange]

1) I should deviate from baseline as follows: "Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum." Correct?

That is what it says but that assumes you want a really minerally beer. If I could edit the sticky I'd put that caveat in there. A more conservative approach would be to use 1 tsp each of CaCl2 and CaSO4 and see how the beer turn out. You can add more gypsum in the glass to see if you think that makes it better and if it does then add more in the next batch you brew.

2) I plan on using the 88% Lactic acid solution...

I figure I can put 2cc of the lactic acid soultion into a syringe to get 2.4 grams of lactic acid and that should get me where I want to be. Does this sound right?

It does to me.

 

[Col_klink]

Thanks for the reply AJ! Cheers!

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

This may be beyond the KISS philosophy of the primer but how do you handle water adjustments for a multi-step mash with an acid rest? Is there a way to figure how much the acid rest will effect pH or do you just have to measure it and adjust as you go? If it's the latter, when do you measure the pH? During the acid rest or in the protein rest? If I have to adjust as I go, it seems it would be better to skip the acid malt in the mash and just use direct acid additions. ...Or am I just overthinking this as usual

 

[ajdelange]

I'm afraid 'acid rest' is a bit of a misnomer. If you take malt and hold it overnight at 47 °C you should see an appreciable pH drop but that's more of a 'rest' than most of us have in mind when we use the term (which, BTW, I haven't heard in quite a while). The Primer applies to any mashing schedule from single step infusion through triple decoction. Some modulations may well be desired depending on the mash program you are actually using but that is indeed getting beyond the Primer's KISS.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

I have heard the term ocassionally but never paid much attention to what it might mean until it showed up in a recipe I was considering. I did some poking around and learned just enough to be confused. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Ohbsolutely]

where does an American amber fit into the primer?

9# 2 Row
1 1/2# Crystal 60
9.3 oz Carapils
8 oz Munich 10
.9 oz Roasted Barley (.5% of grist to add a bit of color)

1.053 OG
36.6 IBUs
12.3 SRM

This is for a 5 gal batch with RO water.

 

[ajdelange]

The Primer could be made even simpler. Add 1/2 tsp of calcium chloride to 5 gal of low ion content water. If the beer is pale, add 2% sauermalz to the grist. Brew. Taste the beer adding incremental amounts of calcium chloride and gypsum until the most pleasing taste is found. Brew again using the additional salts (if any).

That's the approach I would take. If you can find an article or book that says, for example 'American amber is traditionally brewed with high sulfate water' then you could start with 1/2 or even one tsp of gypsum in addition to the calcium chloride. IOW if you can find any guidance wrt the water treatment for this style you can use it to guide what you do within the recommendations of the Primer. You will still have to experiment for best results.

 

[Ohbsolutely]

Much appreciated. I'll take that advice.

 

[Puddlethumper]

As with many others who've posted to this thread... thanks AJ. I've been wrestling with this for a while and wish I had read this primer a month or so back. I have a question and will try to be brief.

I draw water from my own well. According to Ward Labs report all important mineral levels are close enough to your suggested baseline that simply diluting with 25% DI water will bring everything into line. The one exception is Total Hardness (CaCO3) which is at 168. How will this hardness level impact my brewing? Or will it even have an appreciable impact?

 

[ajdelange]

Hardness is beneficial to a certain extent in that it lowers mash pH. That sort of consideration goes beyond the Primer's reach where the idea is that all such considerations are taken into account through the addition of salts to low mineral water. Assuming half the hardness is attributable to calcium that would mean a calcium content of 33.6 mg/L and a magnesium content of 20.4 (the actual numbers are given on the report). Diluting these by 25% would get them 25% lower which is within the bounds generally acceptable for use of the Primer. A 1:1 dilution would cut them both in half.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Hardness is beneficial to a certain extent in that it lowers mash pH. That sort of consideration goes beyond the Primer's reach where the idea is that all such considerations are taken into account through the addition of salts to low mineral water. Assuming half the hardness is attributable to calcium that would mean a calcium content of 33.6 mg/L and a magnesium content of 20.4 (the actual numbers are given on the report). Diluting these by 25% would get them 25% lower which is within the bounds generally acceptable for use of the Primer. A 1:1 dilution would cut them both in half.

Your estimates are spot on. Calcium is 32 and Magnesium 21. That being said, do I understand correctly that the hardness of my water is more likely beneficial than harmful?

 

[ajdelange]

In the majority of cases it is helpful - or at least the calcium part is as it conveys many benefits. But the idea behind the Primer is that you don't need any because you are adding plenty via the the calcium chloride and/or gypsum additions. At the levels you have I wouldn't worry much one way or the other.

 

[Puddlethumper]

. At the levels you have I wouldn't worry much one way or the other.

Thank you sir. You are a genuine asset to our hobby.

 

[alemonster]

Greetings! Great sticky! I know that this may have been discussed, but just for my own peace of mind, I am brewing an Irish red ale. It is only using about 3% roasted barley, would I use the additions for a roasted beer, or would I use the suggestions for British beers. I know I am probably over thinking this a bit, but I want to see if I can dial it in. Thank you any and all for your comments

 

[Puddlethumper]

Lactic is a fine choice - that's what's in sauermalz. There is a little bother calculating the amount of lactic acid. The rule of thumb is 1% of grist should be sauermalz per 0.1 unit pH reduction desired. If you know that sauermalz is 1 - 2% lactic acid by weight you can work that around to the equivalent weight of lactic acid required taking into account that most lactic acid in home brew shops is an 88% solution.
.

I'm getting set up to make a traditional Irish red. I worked my way through the math (above) and it looks like your recommendation works out to just under 2 ml of lactic acid for 10 lbs of grain. Does that number seem right to you?

So to get to the baseline with my water chemistry:

Add 2.5 - 3.0 gal. distilled water to my well water to achieve 10 gal.
Add 2 tsp Calcium chloride + 2 ml lactic acid to the water

Make my beer noting the pH readings of mash and sparge. Taste the finished beer and then adjust the next batch as necessary.

Do I have this figured about right?

 

[ajdelange]

I'm getting set up to make a traditional Irish red. I worked my way through the math (above) and it looks like your recommendation works out to just under 2 ml of lactic acid for 10 lbs of grain. Does that number seem right to you?

That depends on the grains and the alkalinity of the water but it is not an unreasonable number by any means. 88% lactic acid is 11.6 N which means that 2 mL yields 23.2 mEq. In a typical mash with 10 pounds of grain and 10 gal of water that might be expected to shift mash pH by about 0.06 pH or so.

Add 2.5 - 3.0 gal. distilled water to my well water to achieve 10 gal.
Add 2 tsp Calcium chloride + 2 ml lactic acid to the water

Make my beer noting the pH readings of mash and sparge. Taste the finished beer and then adjust the next batch as necessary.

Do I have this figured about right?

Yes.