A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer

[StYak]

Then should I not use the popular spreadsheets? Because when I enter the baseline recommendations plus extra gypsum and calcium chloride in distilled water and the spreadsheet is telling me my estimated mash pH is down to 4.89 and that didn't include the acidulated malt. Add 1% acid malt and that drops the estimated mash pH to 4.73.

Also should I forget the whole high sulfate to chloride ratio for IPAs? Because these new recommendations now show a higher chloride to sulfate ratio. I am so confused because literally for the last 2 weeks until about 2 hours ago, I have been overzealously studying Water and listening to the Brew Strong Waterganza podcasts so I could be ready for my first all grain brew session using distilled water.

 

[StYak]

If you know you like the effects of sulfate then its OK but I always advocate starting with a much lower amount of sulfate and working your way up in subsequent batches.

Try to put the chloride:sulfate ratio concept out of your head. The proper amount of chloride and the proper amount of sulfate for the beer you like best are independent variables. Their ratio will fall where it may depending on the beer and your palate.

Is it still true that sulfates will enhance the bitterness and dryness while chloride will round out the maltiness of the beer?

 

[NeoBrew]

StYak,

You are missing the point of the primer. It is meant to be a simple (and minimal ) approach to water chemistry. It is for those that are just starting on the topic or those that want to keel it simple.

The spreadsheets are great, and tuning your water for flavor is a legit technique. If you want to work with those advanced techniques then go right ahead. Just don't expect the primer to hold up when you do them. It's not for that.

 

[SunsetBrewery]

I just ordered a brewers water test kit from Ward Labs. I've been just filtering my tap water through a 5 micron water filter. My question is....should I send the filtered water or send unfiltered water in to have tested?

 

[Brewski_59]

I would send the water your going to use. So send the filtered water.

 

[ajdelange]

In general you send the source water in order to determine what, if any, filtration or other processing may be necessary.

 

[SunsetBrewery]

I forgot to mention.....I have city water which is really hard & we run water through a water softener. I was thinking the same as Brewski_59

 

[ajdelange]

If using a softener definitely do not send a post softener sample. You will never brew with softened water. Send the source water in order to determine what, if any, filtration or other processing may be necessary.

If your water is too bad you may decide to install an RO system in which case you will want to know the sodium content in the post softener water (as that is what you will connect your RO system to). That is trivial to calculate from the pre softener water report.

 

[elproducto]

Pretty new to water adjustments.

I'm trying to do a double strength brew in my Grainfather then diluting post boil to get me 11 gallons total.

Just confused as to what to do about salt additions. Should I add amounts as if I was brewing 5.5 gallons of beer? Or do I add salts assuming 11 gallons as it will be diluted?

 

[spam]

So does this "soft water baseline" apply to 100% pure ,0 TDS RO/DI water as well?? I sure hope so because I just made a blonde ale (classic styles ) and a BM sterling gold with 100% pure water and only added one tsp.calcium chloride and 2% acid malt. Hope I'm ok....?

 

[ajdelange]

Yes, in fact it is technically only for 100% pure water but clearly water with small amounts of minerals in it will work too.

 

[spam]

Nice, I was worried my mash would end up to acidic or bland

 

[leesmith]

A friend of mine has a Lamotte test kit and so I ran my water through it.



These are the test results:



Chloride: 90ppm

Sulfate: 0ppm

Alkalinity: 200 ppm

Hardness: 260 ppm

Calcium Hardness: 150ppm

Magnesium: 26.4 ppm

Sodium: 31.51 ppm

Residual Alkalinity: 141.43ppm



Any advice would be appreciated. I do know the water supply is treated with chlorine but this is my base water right out of the tap. I'd assume if I boiled it to remove chlorine or used Sodium Metabisulphite to remove it the water profile would change but I think I've got something I can work with here.

 

[ajdelange]

I'd say reject it an use RO water. The alternative is to dump in ~ 3.6 mEq/L acid for each liter just to neutralize the water alkalinity. You will then need additional acid to neutralize the base malt alkalinity. People do this and brew acceptable beer but why not go for the best?

 

[ultravista]

RO water is cheap and the best way to start with a clean slate.

 

[leesmith]

I'd say reject it an use RO water. The alternative is to dump in ~ 3.6 mEq/L acid for each liter just to neutralize the water alkalinity. You will then need additional acid to neutralize the base malt alkalinity. People do this and brew acceptable beer but why not go for the best?

Thanks. Glad I asked. I hadn't yet run the water profile in the Brewers Friend water calculator so I didn't know the amount of acid needed to overcome the RA. That's the downside of depending on calculators and not doing things the old fashioned way...

I currently brew 2.5 gallon batches and want to bump up to 5 gallon batches. While my 5yr old daughter enjoys playing with the Poland Spring jugs leftover after brew day, I was hoping to avoid buying water or a system for the bigger batches. Looks like I'll be shopping for an RO system.

 

[cheesebach]

Getting a couple 5 gallon jugs filled with RO water at the grocery store is the easiest/cheapest way to do it. I usually get mine at Whole Foods for $0.40/gallon I think.

 

[leesmith]

Getting a couple 5 gallon jugs filled with RO water at the grocery store is the easiest/cheapest way to do it. I usually get mine at Whole Foods for $0.40/gallon I think.

I would do that but our grocery store doesn't have it. Wish they did.

 

[mabrungard]

I would do that but our grocery store doesn't have it. Wish they did.

I find that when the local stores don't have RO machines, the local water quality is often lightly mineralized. In this case, RO quality water is probably not needed.

 

[WhoDatDad78]

Baseline: Add 1 tsp of calcium chloride dihydrate (what your LHBS sells) to each 5 gallons of water treated. Add 2% sauermalz to the grist.

Deviate from the baseline as follows:

For soft water beers (i.e Pils, Helles). Use half the baseline amount of calcium chloride and increase the sauermalz to 3%

For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium and gypsum....

So in this instance, i'm brewing EDWORT's hauls pale ale, would I be following the very minerally beers profile? And if so, what amount of gypsum am I using? it says double, but I'm not sure what amount I'm doubling. As for the saurmalz, I don't have any of that, but I do have 10% phosphoric acid.

 

[leesmith]

A friend of mine has a Lamotte test kit and so I ran my water through it.



These are the test results:



Chloride: 90ppm

Sulfate: 0ppm

Alkalinity: 200 ppm

Hardness: 260 ppm

Calcium Hardness: 150ppm

Magnesium: 26.4 ppm

Sodium: 31.51 ppm

Residual Alkalinity: 141.43ppm



Any advice would be appreciated. I do know the water supply is treated with chlorine but this is my base water right out of the tap. I'd assume if I boiled it to remove chlorine or used Sodium Metabisulphite to remove it the water profile would change but I think I've got something I can work with here.

I find that when the local stores don't have RO machines, the local water quality is often lightly mineralized. In this case, RO quality water is probably not needed.

Martin,

Are you suggesting I fill up at a friends house who has a well? I can and could test it. My friend lives on my way home from work and he has already said I'm welcome to use his water.

Also, would boiling my tap water reduce the RA enough to brew pale ales?

 

[leesmith]

I'd say reject it an use RO water. The alternative is to dump in ~ 3.6 mEq/L acid for each liter just to neutralize the water alkalinity. You will then need additional acid to neutralize the base malt alkalinity. People do this and brew acceptable beer but why not go for the best?

Alright. I called and talked to Russ over at BuckeyeHydro.com and he set me up with one of his Premium RO Systems. It's a 100 GPD system with an auto shut of valve kit (ASOV Kit). The 100 GPD should allow me to grow in case I ever increase the volume of my brewery (I do 2.5 gallon batches). Russ was very helpful and we went over everything I'd need. We went with the in line TDS meter for ease of use, the manual flush valve for maintenance, and since I was paying for shipping anyways I bought an extra sediment filter and carbon filter. Excited to get my new system and install it. I'll check back with you guys once I've done so.

 

[hbhudy]

I took the following ""For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum."" As 2Tsp of calcium chloride and 2Tsp of gypsum for 5gal of RO water.. In aggregate for both Mash and Sparge I used 7.5gal of RO so I used 3Tsp of both the calcium and gypsum,,, Is this way to much? I have ready through the thread but it bounced around a bit over the breath of this one thread..
Can someone please give some guidance here??

 

[ajdelange]

When the Primer was originally written people were crazy for minerals. Although that was never my personal preference I thought it best to give the people what they wanted. Since then the thinking seems to have come around to a preference for fewer minerals though those who like ales still seem to want lots of sulfate. Thus, scattered among the numerous posts in this and other threads you will find many that suggest that the recommendations of the Primer should be cut in half i.e. to 1/2 tsp of CaCl2 and gypsum per treated gallon (2-1/2 tsp per 5 gal) for normal beers and to double up (to the original recommendation for normal beers) for highly mineralized ones. I often encourage people to start with even less than the reduced recommendations and work their way up depending on their personal preferences. In particular quite a few people find they don't like the effects of sulfate and so it may be wise to start out with only 1/2 tsp of calcium chloride. To determine whether sulfate is desired, add a bit of gypsum to a sulfate free beer to see if you find the taste improved.

 

[hbhudy]

Thanks for the response AJ.. I will brew my next beer with the same recipe and try your advise.. Good comparison of the same beer against itself with the chemical additions being different

 

[cgrivois]

Is my water good enough? Ive read the first couple of pages and numerous other articles regarding water and to be honest I loose interest in them as its honestly all over my head anyway. My process has been to stop by Wal-Mart on the way home from work and fill up two 5 gallon containers of Primo water, which I assume is RO or close to it. To that I add 1tsp of CaCL2 to each 5 gallon container and that's it. I mainly brew pale ales and lagers so I add enough acidulated malt to the grain bill to get PH to 5.2 ish using brewers friend calculator. So is my water good enough for what I'm doing, or am I missing the boat?

 

[hbhudy]

Just to help me stay honest here on the "math"... If I have 7.5gal of water in total and add 3tsp of gypsum at 4gm/tsp and 3tsp of CalciumChloride at 3.4gm/tsp this would give me roughly Ca.197ppm, SO.235ppm, Cl.172ppm with the gypsum contributing Ca.99,SO.235 and CalciumChloride contributing Ca.98,Cl.172 following Palmers ratios in how to brew of gypsum Ca.62,SO.147 and CaCl Ca.72,Cl.127 based on Gallons/Gram.. Is this math correct??

 

[ajdelange]

Is my water good enough? Ive read the first couple of pages and numerous other articles regarding water and to be honest I loose interest in them as its honestly all over my head anyway. My process has been to stop by Wal-Mart on the way home from work and fill up two 5 gallon containers of Primo water, which I assume is RO or close to it. To that I add 1tsp of CaCL2 to each 5 gallon container and that's it. I mainly brew pale ales and lagers so I add enough acidulated malt to the grain bill to get PH to 5.2 ish using brewers friend calculator. So is my water good enough for what I'm doing, or am I missing the boat?

If the water is indeed RO then you should be OK though you might like the result better (or not) with 1/2 tsp CaCl2 per 5 gal and you might find that you like some sulfate, at least in the ales. Experiment.

That said as I in fact have no idea what is in the water you are buying I can't really answer your question. Send a sample off to Ward Labs.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

My process has been to stop by Wal-Mart on the way home from work and fill up two 5 gallon containers of Primo water, which I assume is RO or close to it.

Yes, Primo water at Wal-Mart is RO water - very, very minimal minerals.

 

[ajdelange]

Just to help me stay honest here on the "math"... If I have 7.5gal of water in total and add 3tsp of gypsum at 4gm/tsp and 3tsp of CalciumChloride at 3.4gm/tsp this would give me roughly Ca.197ppm, SO.235ppm, Cl.172ppm with the gypsum contributing Ca.99,SO.235 and CalciumChloride contributing Ca.98,Cl.172 following Palmers ratios in how to brew of gypsum Ca.62,SO.147 and CaCl Ca.72,Cl.127 based on Gallons/Gram.. Is this math correct??

Those numbers are about right assuming you use CaCl2.2H2O. As CaCl2 is hygroscopic even if the jar contained the dihydrate when you bought it it won't for long. See the sticky on this subject and what to do about it.